The Nürburgring Diaries Archives Volume X

[vitg]

The Nurburgring Diaries - Volume X

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/15/2005 6:14:47 AM

Unfortunately, no, I don't have anything recorded from my original post. I
intended to write it a few days early in Microsoft Word, and then just cut and
paste on Monday morning. But as usual, I procrastinated and ended up just
writing to the post on Monday.

I could probably rewrite it pretty close to the original form if everyone wants
me to. But I think pretty much everyone that was interested, read it, and knows
the general story and rules.

We could put to a general vote. If, say, five or more people want me to re-do
it, I will try to get it as close to the original as possible. Otherwise, we'll
just let it proceed to the Great Recycle Bin In The Sky.
---
"Lately, my dear, your low self esteem is just good, common sense"—Spanglish


From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/15/2005 6:56:50 AM

Man, that bites. Must've been a new mod that did it.
Oh well. I think I'll rewrite my BR, as after reading OldGuy's post I kinda felt
like mine was a little dry. Informative, but dry.
---
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that you're a moron.


From: jazztronaut | Posted: 9/15/2005 10:29:59 AM

interesting thread. I may have to start playing GT4 again.
---
She said, well, don't you start your crying, go outside and ride your bike
That's what I did, I killed my toe


From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/15/2005 2:33:18 PM

I was going to have one hell of a time explaining this to Pete.

Now I'll admit I shouldn't have been driving it, but to be honest I couldn't
resist unwinding it on a few local backroads. The experience was nigh surreal.
The only car I've driven that was this easy to drive this fast was my own
car--and considering that it, like Peter's car, was a Lancer Evolution, wasn't a
surprise. The real shocker was just how much more responsive and tight the
WRC-tuned version of this car was. Understeer was almost nonexistant. The car's
reflexes were unparalleled. No matter how hard I threw it into a corner it
stuck--then begged for more. Of course the trip back was kind of a killjoy
thanks to some road construction (Damn you PennDOT!) but at least I made it home
without incident. I consider myself fortunate that the car just looks like any
one of a million tarted-up rice-rockets that dot the neighborhood. Once I
arrived home, I resolved to not drive it again, and hopefully Pete wouldn't
notice the few extra miles on the clock.


How was I supposed to know this was going to happen? I mean, it wasn't my fault
my idiot neighbor decided to chop down a 150 year-old oak tree in his front yard
and squash the car. At first I thought "Better his car than mine," but then I
realized Pete wouldn't be quite so blase about it. I mean, this car was to be
his livelihood and here I sit with a mangled pile of twisted metal wreckage.
After the tree was removed, I had a chance to survey the wreckage myself--and it
wasn't pretty. Brakes, suspension, powertrain, it was all totaled--completely
unsalvageable. The only thing that could be saved were the wheels and tires, so
I pulled them off. And that's when I saw my own car, a refrigerator-white
Evolution. Same year, same model, identical in appearance aside from the lack of
decals (and that could be easily fixed). I started to get an idea--it would mean
sacrificing my own Evolution, but for Pete's sake it was worth it. Fortunately I
had some extra cash lying around--50 grand, to be precise, and it was burning a
hole in my pocket anyway. So off I went to the local speed shop to grab me some
parts.

The wealth of factory and aftermarket support for this car is astounding. It
turned out I could buy almost anything I needed to turn my street car into a
competition-ready rally car. The pimply-faced geek at the counter knew me
well--I was ALWAYS in here buying something for one project or another--so
seeing me with three or four cartloads of equipment wasn't an unusual thing. I
looked at my checklist to make sure I had everything I needed. Fully
customizable trans kit, check. High-performance racing intercooler, check.
Race-ready suspension kit, check. High-flow intake, K&N filter, header and
straight pipe, check. Racing brake kit, double-check. 5 quarts of Mobil 1,Wix
filter, check (I needed an oil change anyway, may as well kill two birds with
one stone). Replacement panels for the interior, got 'em. 41,000 bucks..not
cheap, but could be worse. I loaded everything into the car and headed home.

---


From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/15/2005 2:41:29 PM

I must have spent the next three days wrenching on that damned Mitsubishi. If
the car didn't behave as if it were a part of me before, it ought to now
considering how much of my knuckles I donated to it during the work. Lots of
blood, sweat, tears and Dr. Pepper went into this build, and now that I was
finally through with it, I decided there was only one way to be sure it was up
to snuff. So off I went, back to the back roads I called home.

I had always thought the local byways resembled the Nordschliefe more than a
little bit, but I don't think I ever realized just how much until I saw a map.
Since taking a trip to Germany with the car was out of the question (I just blew
40+ grand on this car, and anyway Pete will be back tomorrow night!) so my local
road will have to do. I just have to pray my city's finest revenue collectors
are all at the nearby Krispy Kreme. Off I went, and boy did I go! The relatively
mild engine work I did to that little 2.0L four really woke it up. Who'd have
thought an intercooler and open exhaust would give me this much extra power? Of
course, the suspension and lightening had a hand in it as well, and the brakes
were more than up to the task of hauling this beast down from high speed. While
the car didn't feel EXACTLY the same as the rally car it was to replace, it was
close. VERY close. It might actually have been BETTER. It was a tiny bit more
skittish on the pavement, but it was still well within the limits of control for
a capable driver. And the power, what power! No wheelspin, no fishtailing, just
stand on it and GO.

When I arrived home, I saw the twisted remains of Pete's Evolution, and stared
for a long time at both it and its newly-created doppelganger. You know what?
Screw Pete, his insurance will pay for it!
---

From: Onikaze | Posted: 9/15/2005 3:21:56 PM

I haven't had my PS2 for a few days now, I explained why in the now deceased IX.

Either way, I'll get it back later, but until then I've been reading up on cars
that have just came out...

And golly gee, lookit what I found.

www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=105876

Freaking.Glorious.

That car...I can justify paying $70,000 for that car...

If I had the money, I would be sitting in one right now...I don't even have a
house, and I can convince myself that spending money on that car is the right
thing to do.


ooooWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHNNNNNNNN
---
This just in: Gamestop Sucks.
I like my cars how I like my women, tail-happy.


From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 9/15/2005 3:40:23 PM

G'day
Glad to see the diary is back, I could not believe how upset I was when it just
disappeared. Could someone explain what happened? There seemed to be no rhyme or
reason for it. Now down to business - Oldguy I have a printout of the BR™ if you
would like me to repost the details I can do that later on today my time - by
the way I am a day ahead of you guys it is now 8.30 a.m. Friday 16th. AEST this
means I will have to announce my pick for WR™ in about 8 hours as I only have
acess to a computer at work.

I have been having fun doing the Rally / Street copmparison but wont be able to
post the rest of my story until after the weekend.

More later


From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/15/2005 5:16:06 PM

Viper, you're welcome to repost my BR™ if you want.
I think Muse would appreciate it.
-----
The best laid plans of mice and men, often go astray.


From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/15/2005 5:36:07 PM

Oni, I whole-heartedly agree. Just listening to that 427 is enough to make my
heart pound.

I gotta have one. I don't care WHAT it costs or how many hoops I have to jump
through. I NEED ONE.
---
From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/15/2005 5:57:29 PM

I certainly wouldn't complain if the write up reappeared, to be sure.

Oni, two things: First, thanks for marking the troll. Secondly, I bet that
'Vette will be pretty sweet on the PS3 in GT5. If the 70,000 doesn't come
available, perhaps you'll get to scratch the itch eventually.

jwrebholz- excellent work on the BR. Keeping the replacement at the end was a
nice touch.


From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/15/2005 6:34:01 PM

Muse- If Polyphony bothers to put it in. They've been known to ignore cars
before.

JW & Oni- You guys can grab a Z06 and I'll grab a TVR Sagaris, and we can go egg
each other on at a track or two. It'll be loads of fun!

I finally tracked down the street version of the '69 Bluebird. I think I
advanced the calendar 6 months to find it. I should get to it sometime tomorrow.

---
"Me and my babe bought a V8 Ford,
Well, we wind that thing all on the runnin' board, yes" - Robert Johnson,
They're Red Hot


From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/15/2005 7:16:14 PM

You, sir, are ON. So shall it be Laguna Seca, Road Atlanta or BeaveRun? (My home
track. Recently completed, already gaining fame as one of the better east-coast
race courses)
---
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that you're a moron.

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/15/2005 7:20:40 PM

I'd go for Road Atlanta. It's always been one of my favorite courses. BeaveRun
looked pretty interesting, too. Laguna Seca is way to far to drive with gas
prices as high as they are.

What the Hell am I talking about? If I can afford a Sagaris, I can afford gas to
California!

I'd still go with Road Atlanta, though.

---
"Me and my babe bought a V8 Ford,
Well, we wind that thing all on the runnin' board, yes" - Robert Johnson,
They're Red Hot


From: Onikaze | Posted: 9/15/2005 7:24:57 PM

I don't like the American Tracks that much.

I would like to wag a C6 Z06's tail around Midfield Raceway though...

Oh I bet that car would slide somethin perdy.

Hell, let's just lap them around the Nurburgring...

Bonus points if the TVR Makes it without losing any parts on the way.
---

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/15/2005 9:11:06 PM

I've been playing with this week's RR, the Toyota SUPERAUTOBACS APEX MR-S '00.

It's a very quick little car. My first lap was a 7'27, but I could feel that it
was capable of much better times. I just didn't like the "feel" of it. I had a
hard time knowing how hard I could push it. It seemed that it stuck to the track
very tightly, to a point, and then let loose without much warning.

To improve the feel, I softened up the springs quite a bit. That helped. The
"break-loose" point became much more detectable, and my time improved
considerably. It still understeered under braking and the front broke loose
before the back, so I maxed the front downforce, reduced the rear downforce
quite a bit, and added some rear brake-bias.

Aahhh...that was more like the way I like it to feel. I could get it to drift a
little, and it became more neutral under braking, allowing faster entrances into
hard turns such as Bergwerk.

My final lap was a 7'11, which is very quick for a 300 hp car. I think perhaps
the car would potentially be faster with the stiffer, original spring setup, but
I was able to get more out of it by softening it to get the feel I like. I wish
I knew more about shock settings. I think one could get more out of it by
adjusting the shocks and stabilizers, rather than the way I did it.

Overall, I liked it after I made the adjustments that I did. Maybe I'll put it
in some JGTC races, just to see how it compares.
---

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/15/2005 9:47:16 PM

Just as a follow-up, I had to upgrade the turbo and put R3's on the MR-S to
compete with the top-end JGTC cars.

I battled to a close 144 pt. win on Tokyo 246 over the Motul Pitwork car, but
then ran away and won by half a lap on the Suzuka Short Circuit.

On to something else.
---


From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 9/16/2005 12:57:13 AM

I have retyped the Rally Car BR™ but I didnt have any printouts of the stories
and writeups that had been done, hopefully the authors have kept their own
copies.
As I mentioned before my pick for WR™ is a bit of a nostalgia kick so here goes
- Its big, its back its the return of GODZILLA a.k.a. 1989 Nissan Skyline, these
can be found in 80's second hand shop if not a 1991 or 1992 should be available
in the other. I picked this car because I enjoyed mastering how to drive it in
GT1 in both normal and Race car versions. I don’t know if the Godzilla nickname is
a purely Aussie thing but that is what they were called after winning both the
1991 and 1992 Bathurst 1000km endurance races at the Mount Panorama circuit,
have you heard of this race?

It will probably be like piloting a bowl of custard around the Ring but hey
indulge an old man.

Cheers

Following is a copy of the Rally Car BR™

From: oldguy1957 / Posted: 9/12/2005 6:48:15AM / Message Detail

Your brother-in-law, Pete, has just started a new career as a Rally Race car
driver. He bought a Rally car, but then went on a short vacation. He decided to
leave his car with YOU. You promised not to touch it, but couldn’t resist taking
if for a little spin on the back-roads near your home. Unfortunately, on your
little joy-ride, you wrapped his car around a tree, totally destroying it,
except for the wheels.

By coincidence, your family car is the same make and model. You run to the bank
and take out a second mortgage on your house and come home with $50,000
(credits). Then you go to work.

So here’s the rules:

1. Pick an unmodded Rally car from your garage (or buy a new one if you so
choose). Run it around the ring. Do any tweaking you want. Get your best time
with it which will be used as a target time.
2. Find a production car (in your garage, or buy one) that is as close as you
can find to the production model of the Rally car you chose. It doesn’t have to
be the exact year or model. Same make and body style is good enough (Pete’s not
very smart as long as the car looks the same, he won’t notice it’s not the
original).
3. Not counting the price of the car or the R1’s (the tyres survived the crash)
you have 50,000 credits to get your family car to equal your target time on the
‘Ring’. You, of course will have to buy the tyres, but they won’t be counted
against the budget. As far as I know, all Rally cars come on R1’s. If you find
one that comes on something else, just be sure you buy the same tyres for your
family car.
4. No Supercharges. No Nitrous. Other than that, go nuts and do whatever you
want.
5. Use, or don’t use driving aids, as you choose. But you must use the same ASM
and TCS settings on both cars.

Now, the objective for this is not so much to make a family car that can kick
the butt of it’s Rally model, but instead, to find the most family-car-ish car
that can equal the performance of it’s Rally Car equivalent, using only 50,000
cr.
There’s a wide variety of cars to choose from. I’ve done a few tests and one
with one car I needed more than 60,000 credits to equal the target time….the
other only about 25,000. Be creative!

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/16/2005 4:27:08 AM

Viper, you're brave to pick the Red Emblem for the WR, I don't know that it's
been done yet. I got my '89 Skyline GT-R with 6.2 miles on it. It's worth the
rigidity refresh and oil change if yours needs it.

*stands up*
Hi, my name is wanderingmuse22, and I like driving Skylines
*sits down*

Thanks for reposting the BR. Even though everyone from IX who was gonna play had
an idea of what they needed to do, any newcomers might benefit from it residing
here; not just to try for themselves, but as a flawless example of what a BR is.

Peace.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/16/2005 4:48:56 AM

Lastly, Godzilla likes it when you throw him into corners and punch the gas to
keep him there. I can't say I ever imagined putting those words into that order.

8' 04. 463

I know, I know, Godzilla's a Skyline. I love him anyway. Can I keep him?

[vitg]

From: Flibutz | Posted: 9/16/2005 6:07:10 AM

I tried the RR and WR today.

With the RR, I felt at home pretty quick. I had never driven this car before,
but it handles very good. My best lap was 7'08.9xx, which I'm pretty satisfied
with. It was a lot of fun and there's still a little bit of room there, so I'm
going to take it out for a few laps tomorrow. The only tweaking I've done so far
is that I maxed the downforce. Some suspension tweaking might be a good idea,
but the car already handles so good I'm not sure how to improve it. This calls
for some trial-and error. More on that later, I need to do some more laps with
the car.

WR: Hey, this Skyline isn't too bad. I had some negative feelings initially,
largely because I've just sweated blood with the car when trying to gold an A
license test that features this car on the Trial Mountain. However, in the test
it's on N tires, and it feels a lot better with S2's. My best lap so far is
8' 00.166. I'm probably not going to go much faster, but I still don't feel like
I've figured the car out.

I'm slightly drunk now, so I'm going to postpone any additional testing laps
until tomorrow. (lap times start to degrade very rapidly after 3-4 beers, for
me.)
---
From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/16/2005 1:26:24 PM

Well, I suppose with 50+ of the buggers, it was inevitable that one Skyline or
Another, got picked for the WR...

I'll see what I can do with one. They're a lot more driveable than they were in
GT3, so I shouldn't get too frustrated.

I have never once driven the Apex MR-S. Not in GT3 (where it was damn hard to
win), nor in GT4 (where it's damn expensive to buy). Maybe I should break down
and go buy one.

---
"Me and my babe bought a V8 Ford,
Well, we wind that thing all on the runnin' board, yes" - Robert Johnson,
They're Red Hot

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 9/16/2005 1:38:24 PM

what? my Novel is gone? doh! I'll see you ringers in a few weeks

---
If a tree falls in the woods, does anyone care?

From: Amarynceus | Posted: 9/16/2005 3:12:58 PM

A Skyline, eh? Brave choice! I've only driven a Skyline once in this game, so it
will be something new, which is part of what the WR is about.

---
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds:
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.


From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/16/2005 3:44:26 PM

It's a dandy of a Skyline. Remember, Godzilla likes it rough.

Here's a writeup about the car you might enjoy...

www.jbskyline.net/R32/GTR/

It goes through the history of the car, the innovations involved that were
cutting edge at the time, etc. Good pics, too.
---
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will
be the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:27


From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/16/2005 3:58:15 PM

The '89 Skyline I had in my garage had been modified, so I had to go find a new
one. I picked up the 6.2 miler in Wordy Black, put in my driver ballast, and hit
the 'Ring.

Without the oil change, the 6.2 mile cars have nearly identical power to a
high-mileage one with new oil, so no oil change for me.

If the AC was a wild stallion (Wyld Stallyns!), and the Spyker a stubborn mule
(albeit a fast one), then the '89 Skyline GT-R is a milk cow. It's the most
docile, unassuming, and unaggressive feeling car I've driven. Even the engine
sounds sort of Emo Phillips-ish.

However, a total lack of infuriating handling in a 4WD car is an accomplishment,
so I have to give them credit for that. The Lancer Evo and Impreza STi may be
faster, but they both piss me off regularly. Even the Golf R32 (my current
favorite 4WD) gets a bit recalcitrant when you start to push it.

I was able to turn in a 8'01.2, with some room for improvement. I'll try to get
it back out to get my time under 8'00, but I still have the BR (and possibly the
RR) to do, and I don't know how much GT time I'll get. Disgaea has been creeping
back into my life (and my wife's), and that game can get addicting.

Later, all.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/17/2005 7:22:25 AM

I would like to thank the contributers of this thread. I finally broke down and
got my S license. I'd put it off forever, but after working through all the
tests, the finale on the 'Ring was the EASIEST of them all.

I didn't gold it, but I silvered it on my first completed lap (I had a couple
careless offs first). I know that if I'd tried it prior to my 'Ring experiences
and involvement in this diary, it would have taken me 50 tries just to complete
a lap with no offs (stupid unforgiving license tests).

To celebrate, I'm spamming the DTM so I can grab up an MR-S race car for the RR
and also an ASL race car to challenge it. I also started the Premium Sports
Lounge with the M5, but I suppose that's another topic.

Anyway, I hope everyone's enjoying their weekend, Peace.
---

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/17/2005 7:27:40 AM

Congrats, Muse! Silver on your first (full) lap great, and I don't think I could
do any better.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/17/2005 7:45:54 AM
MrPinstripes, you could gold it on your first lap, but thank you!
---
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will
be the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:27

From: Amarynceus | Posted: 9/17/2005 7:53:20 AM

Nice work, muse! I remember when I had to redo all the license tests after a
save corruption, I silvered that one on the first (completed) shot. Gave me a
nice fuzzy feeling.
Even better was a few days ago when I was doing some random license tests to get
a few more golds, and I noticed that one was still silver -- first go, gold!
Only by 0.421" but gold is gold. Of course, it helps that I've done over a
thousand miles in that car.
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds:
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/17/2005 8:09:56 AM

My wife and son will be gone tomorrow (visiting the half of her family whom I
loathe- apologies to Amarynceus if that isn't grammatically correct), so I'll
get lots of time in on GT4 when they're gone. The BR is my first port-of-call,
then the WR, then the RR if I can get to it.

On a side note, I'm preparing to start yet another game. I just have to figure
out how I want to go about doing it, and which game I want to erase. Maybe I
should just can both of them and start over from the beginning...

Muse- While I probably could, I didn't. My second game I got silver on my first
(completed) try, gold on my second. We'll see how I do if/when I start up game
3.

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/17/2005 9:37:03 AM

I remember trying S-16 immediately after I had just spent 2+ weeks trying to
complete M34. It was impossible!! There are many corners that could be taken
flat-out with the S-16 test car that I had been braking, or at least lifting
for, every day for nearly three weeks in the SLR. I couldn't make myself keep
throttle wide open, even though I was pretty sure the car would stay on the road
if I did.

I had to just leave it, and come back after a couple weeks, at which time I
golded it easily on the first try.
---
The best laid plans of mice and men, often go astray.

From: Flibutz | Posted: 9/17/2005 3:14:35 PM

Muse - Way to go! The Nurburgring tests are no match for us 'ringers, eh?

I've been running the Toyota Superautobacs Apex MR-S around the ring today,
trying to find a good setup for it. It is truly a great little car, the R1s feel
like R3s at times. I ended up using pretty much the default suspension, only set
the front damper bounce to 7, and softened the front springs slightly. (0.5-0.6
kg/mm) It helped the handling a bit. Next, I wanted to get just a little bit of
lift-throttle oversteer, it's a MR car it should have some. I dropped the LSD
decel to 10 and it did the trick nicely. After that it became clear that the
throttle-on understeer was a bit too much, and I set the LSD accel at 25. That
helped a lot in the fast bends. I'm still stunned by just how fast this car is
with its "measly" 320hp. With the final settings, I was able to clock a 7'05.xxx


Tomorrow will be a push-the-Godzilla-to-the-limit day, I'm hoping to run a 7
minute lap. The ASL would be nice to try out too, now that muse mentioned it. I
happen to have one in my garage with 0.0km on it, so maybe it's about time I
tried it out.
---
Relax. Have a homebrew.


From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/17/2005 6:25:49 PM

I BARELY eked out a silver on the S-16 test--but then again, I had failed the
previous five tries, and was running really conservatively. (Mind you, my
driving style still tends to be pretty hamfisted--I'm so far behind the other
drivers I'm not worthy to eat their dust)
---
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that you're a moron.


From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/17/2005 10:06:00 PM

I've got a little challenge here for anyone who cares to try it.

I've been farming a-spec points lately. I've been using a post from GTPlanet
from a guy who has listed his 200 pt. wins. For the Schawarzwald Liga B, he says
he used an Audi S4, unmodded (346 hp) with N2's and 200kg of ballast. It turns
out that you don't need the ballast, just the N2's to get the 200 pts.

Anyway, the Nurb is the first race in that series. With the N2's I haven't been
able to come within 15 seconds of winning. Now, I might not be the BEST Nurb
driver out there, but I'm not THAT bad.

I was wondering if Oni, especially (since he's the master of N tires), or anyone
else that wants to, would give this a try and see if they can win that race with
the S4 on N2's. My point being, I think that guy was full o' crap!! I don't
think it can be done, but I want a few other opinions. I raced it clean, but
even with the M34 cheats I wouldn't be able to make up anywhere near 15 seconds.

BTW, the best I did as far as points was 159, with S2's and 100 kg of ballast.
---

From: Nito_Musashi | Posted: 9/18/2005 1:29:30 AM

ill bet he used the shortcuts on the track. just a guess tho but there are a few
parts here n there u can pretty much just drive thru , and sometimes i do take
the one by accident trying to do hot laps oops.

also i saw a record lap from some site video the champ rode the wall at that
first tight "hairpin" turn looks more like V to me on the map. but he just
barreled into full speed and accelerated out onto the road since the guard rail
runs out to the road on that turn.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/18/2005 6:36:18 AM

Oldguy, was the field specified? Maybe he drew a pack of slower cars?

Though to be honest, any Audi I've driven that comes with more than 300hp and
less than 500hp has been a no handling pig, especially the A4.

I was disappointed they left out the A8 W12 450hp sedan, for to compete with the
M5, but it wouldn't have mattered, if they weren't going to let it turn.

Having said that, the Lemans Quattro was fun to drive (600hp). I've yet to try
the Nuvolari, but I suppose it would be worthwhile to test them both out on the
'Ring.

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/18/2005 7:09:45 AM

I entered several times, and the competition is pretty consistent as far as
a-spec points, and they stay pretty much in one pack. Generally, it's either a
1st place finish, or a 6th.

I agree about the car. I was not impressed by it. But I'm really only interested
in the points, so if it gets me max points, I'll deal with a boring car.

The 120d I used for the Schwardzwald Liga A was even MORE boring, but it did the
trick.
---
From: Onikaze | Posted: 9/18/2005 7:54:57 AM

I could try it...

But I'd rather match up the power/weight/tires with something that wasn't an
Audi.

There are VERY few AWD cars that I like to drive in this game.

The Audi Le Mans Quattro is the only Audi in that group.
---

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/18/2005 8:14:43 AM

Pete's Rally Car BR

I got a chance to run Pete's '69 Nissan Bluebird Rally Car on the 'Ring. I
didn't mess with the setup he had coming back from a rally at the Grand Canyon,
so the car was a bit soft-n-squishy. In addition, my redline light was flashing
on the short straight after Hatzenbach, so I was going to be running out of
gearing frequently.

For a having a dedicated dirt setup, the Nissan didn't handle badly at all.
Phenomenal grip at "speed" (117 was my top speed) and a hint of oversteer 'round
the bends. Target time: 8'58.8 (on S2 "bias ply racing slicks")

Now I had to get down to the business of creating its doppelganger. Some engine
work (NA2, Racing Exhaust, Port Polish, Racing Chip), a new transmission and
clutch (Twin Plate), a FC suspension, and a set of Enkei wheels round out my
purchases- 50,000 Cr. even. My tuned street car was short 10 horsepower, but it
was short a few kg, too. I'd have to hope that would balance out.

While my sheep-in-wolf's-clothing handled remarkably like the race version, it
lacked the grunt to make it up the hills as quickly, and the lack of downforce
nibbled away at my time the entire lap. Final time: 9'09.9.

While Pete might be able to notice the difference (an extra gear might clue him
in), he shouldn't have to put too much more money into the Bluebird to match his
old one. NA3 would eliminate the need for the port polish and the racing chip
(and NA2, naturally), and some bodywork (a wing) would finish the job. I don't
think Pete will miss the LSD at all- it doesn't seem to help much on such a
low-powered car.
---
Oldguy- I'll try your A4 challenge, though I, too, have hated every Audi I've
driven. I'll do that before I run the Skyline again.

---
"It kills my brain to think of all the time I've wasted here..." Oingo Boingo,
Change
Pics- photobucket.com/albums/a346/MrPinstripes/

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/18/2005 9:06:42 AM

Oldguy- I think an unballasted Audi S4 on N2 tires is possible, but needlessly
hard. I doubt seriously if a ballasted one could win without resorting to grass
cuts and wall rides. I was staying about 5-7 seconds back until I bit it hard
around Bergwerk. Man, that car handles like a turd!

An easier route would be the same Audi on S1 tires, with 200 kg ballast set
between 20-50, depending on personal preference. I set mine at 40, and it was a
bit to unstable under braking for my tastes, though it did eliminate the
horrible understeer under acceleration.

I tested it on S2s and won by 7 seconds or so (178 points), with a
less-than-clean run. Changing over to S1s bumped the points up to the full 200,
but I didn't race it again to see how difficult it would be.

From: OCAdam | Posted: 9/18/2005 9:46:24 AM

So now, I had the keys in my hand from Pete’s Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV
from 1997, and I wanted to test it out. So I did, at the local byways, that
resembled the Nurburgring for some weird reason, and I got a lap time of 7
minutes, 58.283 seconds.

As I got the car into the driveway, I saw my neighbor, who hated my family for
being able to afford new cars, cutting down a tree. I thought nothing of it,
until I got out and the tree fell on top of Pete’s Rally Car! After we finally
got the tree removed, and I finished yelling curses at my neighbor, I looked at
the wreckage. The entire engine was smashed by the tree and only the wheels
would make it alive, so I pulled them off to make sure they didn’t get destroyed
by some fire that the car was becoming. I ran into the garage and got my fire
extinguisher and sprayed out the fire.

I looked at my car for a second, and realized it was almost the exact same as
Pete’s RC, as it was a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV from 1996, just one year
off. The only difference in appearance was the fog light covers were off, but
they were in my glove compartment and the decals of course. I drove the Lancer
to the Mitsubishi dealer and went straight into the Ralli Art tuning department
with $50K, and bought myself for the car several things.

I got a new turbo Stage 1, VCD Controller, Racing Transmission, Racing
Suspension, Racing Muffler, Weight Reduction Stage 1 for the car and went
straight to my car and installed the things the next day at home. Well, actually
it took 5 days to do so, but it didn’t matter. Pete was getting home in three
days after I got the mods into the car.

I took the car back onto the streets and got an oil change, leaving only $200
left after the original $50K. I revved the engine and I made a single lap, with
no cops chasing me yet, and made 7 minutes and 56.570 seconds for a lap. Not bad
considering I beat the RC lap by 1.713 seconds.

I went back home, but found a cop car chasing me, so I left it in the dust with
my WRC tuned factory Lancer Evo IV. I had earlier found a log of Pete’s exact
tunings for stock WRC configuration, and used it on my car. The cop wasn’t even
able to try keeping up with my car, so he gave up. I went into my local vinyl
dealer, and got them to install the WRC stickers and decals onto my car. The
next day, I got the car home and into the garage, and decided to try and fix as
many parts as possible from Pete’s car. I was finally able to get the gas tank
out, and I sold the wreck to the junkyard, and got myself 12K as a result to buy
myself a new car.
---
When I get that Desert Eagle, I'm gonna go hunting random people. And all their
cars are belong to me! Don't kill me.

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/18/2005 10:31:33 AM

Thanks for the input, guys. I think there's probably an easier way to get to 200
pts. on the Liga B.
---
From: Onikaze | Posted: 9/18/2005 12:11:18 PM

videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=3C978FC6-0850-4068-8C51-67E01454C978&kw=27&p=1

sweet.
---
From: ritscafe | Posted: 9/18/2005 12:46:02 PM

I started the Nurburgring 24hr race (A-Spec) on Sept 11 and finished today (Sept
18) Here's how I did it. I Raced in a Opel astra with all the goodies except
boost.I used a Turbo 4
which was far too much power for the other cars,I should have used Turbo 3.The
only Competition in the race was a Nissan Falken GT-R race car,and I am
embarrassed to say that I lapped it 21 times.The reason that I didn't stop and
go with the Turbo 3 was because I had always used the 4 in the German Touring
car series which races at the Ring.I felt that a slower car would bore me and I
would still win by many laps.
The first 12hrs saw a fast and tight car,the driver fast but inconsistent.my
fastest laps were in this first half of the race.15 or so laps under 6:30
(PB-6:26.335)
The next 6hrs the car began to lose hp but the handling remained pretty well.the
driver(I call her AndrAIa)improved dramatically.fewer highlight reel
crashes.maybe 5 sub 6:30 laps
the final 6hrs saw a underpowered unstable car that was awful to drive .If I
even touched the grass or sand on the outside of a corner I was going the wrong
way a long way.No sub 6:30 laps after 18hrs.
I knew the other cars weren't going to be a challenge so I needed to create one
.I decided that I would maintain certain conditions for the duration .
1)I would race FLAT OUT every lap!!!!!(My Brother who B-Specs ,I don't,would
call it "Overtake"mode.
2)I would never leave the game running unattended.Iwould race every second of
the race
I am happy to report that I was able to maintain that standard,even if a few
laps were glass eyed.The car is shot and so is the driver.I imagine that at one
point or another I probably crashed at every turn on the course,I even managed
to do a 900 on the grass.I am very happy to say that dispite all the CARnage,my
worst lap was a Pit/fuel lap that was 7:15 or so.
I raced on R2(hard) tires and pitted every 2nd lap.Racing flat-out eats tires,I
gassed up every 4laps (62/80).I could have tried R1's and go 3 and 6
respectfully but I don't believe the Opal could make 6 laps without fuel.
I enjoyed it entirely and may try it again someday with less car.....BTW I won a
boring white car....Later!

From: Amarynceus | Posted: 9/18/2005 1:00:20 PM

Oni -- sweet indeed.

Pity it ended right in the Karussell. And the audio was a little janky. Still
sweet though.

---
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds:
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.

From: GreenTygur | Posted: 9/18/2005 3:08:43 PM

first off, apologies on the rally car BR, i got confused lol wrong track

Well I got my hands on the toyota RR pick and I dont have much experience with
the racing type cars or the ring so I try my best here. Left it stock as I
purchased it, no tire changes, no tweaking. As unfamiliar with the ring as i am
it is my fav track so I was off and going, my first lap saw me around 8:10...
which I know doesnt compare to any of you heh but it was a clean lap... and for
good reason. If its just me or the racing type cars I dont know but this thing
handled exactly like I want a car to handle. Quick brakes that dont lock easily,
great grabbing traction whether slowing into a turn, letting it ride through or
slamming the gas out of it, it was predictable and a joy to drive. After a few
laps I got my time down to about 7:45-ish but I still have a lot to learn about
the ring and I'm still mostly afraid to push the car even if it is a game hehe.

They also had a nice 89 skyline gtr in stock for the WR, mmmm pearl black. SO I
grabbed that and threw in an oil change and headed to the ring. Now, the only
other AWD/4WD car I have and have driven is my RUF CT4 or whatever it is fully
tuned over 1000hp or something which has MASSIVE understeer which is what I
expected from another 4wd but not this guy. It felt so easy to drive that I
would choose it over lots of FR or FF cars... not typical for me. The power is
lacking a bit but for a car at its level it was dead on with the grip. I didn't
manage a good time, i think 8:35 was my best, but im still slightly afraid to
push it, im a perfectionist for clean laps heh. Still this car did not handle at
all like I expected it which made it a joy to drive.

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 9/18/2005 5:35:05 PM

WR™
Time for a few laps in Godzilla. Hmm, not a bowl of custard, more like rice
pudding? Actually I rather liked this car, nice and stable with pretty good
stock suspension. my first lap driven with my usual caution and braking way too
much was 8'22.939
Next two were rough but down to 8'14.237 , I turned down the driver aids by a
third to sharpen up the steering and managed a 8'12.109 with a clean run. I then
decided to stop mucking around and started to use a bit of countersteering
before corners to help sharpen up the steering some more and take advantage of
the 4WD to get good drive out of corners.This led to an 8'08.423 which I was
very pleased with as it was to my mind perfect, I nailed every apex and do not
think I could drive the sraight and last three corners any faster. This time is
probably slow compared to the experts here and I am probably still overbraking
etc. but I found it very satisfying.

To celebrate I went back to the internatonal A licence test, which I had not
touched since getting Bronze early on in the game and knocked 36 seconds off my
time.I would have done better but the stoopid pace car kept getting in my way, I
am much faster than the pace car now and will have to figure out how to get the
Gold without overtaking the pace car!!

PS Did anyone else watch the MotoGP at Motegi, its always interesting watching
races at tracks you have driven on
More later

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/18/2005 6:11:39 PM

Burnout: Revenge is currently holding my PS2 hostage, so no GT4 right now. I
haven't done the WR and probably won't bother at this late hour, but I DO have a
BR idea that I think is interesting. I recently had a couple weeks in a row
though, so I'm willing to defer for a while to give someone else a chance.
---
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that you're a moron.
From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/18/2005 6:58:55 PM | Message Detail
I did do a test run of the WR a few days ago, and just never got around to doing
a write-up on it.

I picked my '89 Skyline up in Gun Gray Metallic, with 57,000 miles on it. I have
to say I really do like the styling of it for an '89. The no-chrome look and the
slightly flared rear fenders make it look just a bit "menacing" to me.

The drive on the 'ring was about what I expected. It handled fairly neutral and
didn't do anything unexpected. I ran several laps in the low 8's. Then being
determined to break the 8-minute barrier, I gritted my teeth and gave it my full
concentration and pulled out a 7'57.

I have to say that the '99 Evo I test-drove for my BR idea, which had only
slightly more horsepower (316 I think), made my heart go pitty-patter much more
than this Skyline did. That Evo is a sweat handling car!

I do like this Skyline, but more for its looks than its performance.
---
From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/18/2005 7:56:17 PM

Oni, that video was superb, thank you for sharing.

Would an M3 (CSL, GTR, or decaffienated) be of any match against the BTR in GT4?

[vitg]

From: Onikaze | Posted: 9/18/2005 8:50:36 PM

In my hands, the BTR is a 7'30 car, the M3 CSL is about the same, so yeah, that
would be a good matchup.

Not sure if I'm just faster with the BTR, or feel that the CSL is a little too
knife edged at times, but I run them within seconds of each other last I
checked.
---
This just in: Gamestop Sucks.
I like my cars how I like my women, tail-happy.

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/19/2005 3:27:15 AM

Oldguy- You do realize that you just beat my WR time by 4 seconds, right? You
can stop saying you're not that good now. Nice time, by the way.

Muse- I'd bet that I would put in a slightly faster lap in the M3, but that's
just because it suits me so well. Once you get to the CSL/GTR/Decaf ones, I'd
lean heavily towards the BMW. I'll try it out sometime.

Tygur- The Ruf CTR2 doesn't so much understeer as it does unsteer. Understeer
implies that it will still turn a bit. I said a while back that I think Ruf
forgot to install a steering wheel on that one, or maybe just forgot to connect
it to anything.
---
"It kills my brain to think of all the time I've wasted here..." Oingo Boingo,
Change

Pics- photobucket.com/albums/a346/MrPinstripes/


From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/19/2005 4:33:12 AM

Unsteer, that's right. It used to be great on dirt, though. Have you tried it?

---
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will
be the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:27


From: Flibutz | Posted: 9/19/2005 5:43:38 AM

WR:
I don't understand why so well-behaved car is compared to Godzilla. Godzilla was
pretty mean, wasn't it? Well, the Skyline is, too, if you just look at the
laptimes. But the driving experience isn't that furious. I tried the newest VR-4
3000GT for comparison, and it felt a lot naughtier. But it's no match for
Godzilla's laptimes, I'd estimate it's 15 seconds or so slower. When I took the
Skyline out again, I noticed I hadn't done rigidity refresh on it. After that, I
took it to the 'ring again. Just like oldguy, I was running very low 8's until I
got it right on one lap that stopped the clocks in exactly 7'57.500.

Being a diary noob, I've missed a lot of good WR's but I'm trying them out one
by one.

I ran the AC on the 'ring for the first time, and I must say I just love the
car. I ran a 7'28.9, is that good?

BTR sounds like it's worth trying. I'm a little bit afraid just how rough it is,
because I tried the Yellow Bird a couple of days ago..

Which other WR's do you guys consider are must to try?
---
Relax. Have a homebrew.

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/19/2005 6:05:49 AM

Definitely try the Lancia Stratos. A temperamental beastie, she be, but once ye
know the ropes, glorious treasure awaits ye, me hearty.

The Chrysler 300 and Jaguar S-type R be monstrous dreadnoughts, but they fly
with the speed of a corvette, aye. (Note; The 300 was one of my picks--and it
went over like a lead balloon, but it's an interesting car I feel, and I liked
it)
---
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that you're a moron.

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/19/2005 10:07:13 AM

I guess since nobody's mentioned a BR yet, I'll go ahead and tell you mine.

For this week's BR, the budget is generous--125,000Cr, and 75,000Cr for parts.
However there's a catch. You will not be buying one car. You will be buying FOUR
cars. Call this BR "Filling the Stable". Since variety is the spice of life (and
to keep you clowns from just buying the same car four times) you must fill the
following requirements.

1. One car must be new (and by new I mean no classics.)
2. One car must be less than 10,000 Cr purchase price.
3. One car must be FF.
4. These must not be the same car.
5. NO car may have less than 100 horsepower stock.

You can do anything you want to the cars. Also, today you got a flyer in the
mail. Ordinarily you toss these things out, but the line at the top caught your
eye. "GT SPEED SHOP BLOWOUT SALE!!!!" You read on to see that your local
performance shop is dumping all its low-level upgrade items at cut-rate prices,
parts for all vehicles are on sale.
SP exhaust, SP suspension, S1 weight reduction, NA Tune 1, Turbo 1, SP
intercooler, CL trans, SP clutch, SP flywheel, all differentials (except custom)
and R1 tires are on sale this week only at 50% off!. They're also throwing in a
free oil change with any purchase and a free Rigidity Refresh with any purchase
of 15,000Cr or more (per car, after discounts). All other components are 25% off
except for NA tune 3, Turbo 4, nitrous oxide and S3 weight reduction. It's for
this week only, so go clean house!
---
From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/19/2005 11:15:21 AM

Just a clarification. You can buy a classic for this, but you must buy one BRAND
NEW car. Buying a classic doesn't count toward the first requirement, but it can
be used to fulfill any of the other two, or as a fourth car.
---
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that you're a moron.


From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/19/2005 2:04:49 PM

Flibutz- The Aston Martin DB9, the BMW M5, and the Jaguar E-Type are all not
just great, not just amazing, but AMAZINGLY AMAZING! If anyone can name that
(mis)quote, I'll be proud.

I really enjoyed my Mazda 110S (L10B), but it didn't seem to get anyone else's
attention (I'd call it meditative). The BTR is, of course, a wild, evil machine,
but one of the most satisfying to get a handle on- after that, you can drive
just about anything.

Muse- No, I haven't run the CTR2 on dirt in GT4. I did in GT3, but I couldn't
handle it at the time. I doubt if I could now, either.

JW- Sounds like a good BR, but that's a lotta math!
---
From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/19/2005 5:13:36 PM

Yeah, it's gonna be a fair bit of work, but I'm sure you folks are up to the
challenge, right?
---
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that you're a moron.


From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/19/2005 5:24:56 PM

Flibutz, if the Yellowbird was a bit much, the BTR will be just fine. Tune
yourself to the car. Do not try to adjust the car to you. The RGT is the mildest
of the three, if you want to start there. Trust the gas to stabilize you.

There's been some great "How to go fast in an RR beast" posts in past threads.
You might could find some more on gtplanet.net (search for yellowbird).

The 427 S/C may be my favorite WR to date. If only it could race with the top
down. Sigh.

The DB9 and M5 are better than MrPinstripes says they are. Has there been a TVR
for WR?
---
From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 9/19/2005 8:28:12 PM

BR™ - Rally/ Street car, part 2

Sacre Bleu! What have I done? Pete’s car totalled, except for the wheels. Have I
ruined his rally career? My only hope is to do up Dads old Turbo ’80 and hope it
is a worthy replacement. I think though I have bitten off more Fromage than I
can chew. Pete was lucky enough to drive his car at Nürburgring when the Factory
was doing some testing there, so I have a look at his Logbook “I can only have
five laps and wont have time for any tuning so I will have to run as it would
have come from the factory. First lap 7 ’47.605 car has major power off
understeer and major power on oversteer, what I’d call The Butterfly Effect i.e.
car feels like it is pivoting around a vertical axis in the middle of the car. A
lot of this can probably be put down to the R1 tyres. I will just have to brake
early and be precise with my lines and don’t back off mid corner! Car is also as
jumpy as a Kangaroo on heat, being easily unsettled by bumps – it definitely
needs major sorting. Second lap very rough but a 7’ 37 .393. Two laps washed
out. Last lap, very hard work but a clean lap at 7’ 35.675.

That’ll do pig, that’ll do”

I set to work with my second mortgage money adding:
Oil change
Racing Chip
Semi Racing Exhaust
Triple Clutch
Racing Flywheel
Stage 2 Turbo
Large Cooler
Sports Suspension
Racing Brakes
Fully Gearbox
Lose some Weight (Stage 1)
Add a Wing for a grand total of $47350 and a car of 263 horses and 940Kg

Now where to test the car? Luckily there is a stretch of road nearby that is a
dead ringer (sorry!) for Nordschleife, so I head off there.
First sighting lap, 8’ 05.004, second lap 8’ 01.557. Not bad but I need to tune
the suspension a bit, so set the ride height at 110 / 110, dampers at 5 / 5,
camber 1.5 / 1
Gearbox auto 6 with final ratio 3.490 and down force 20 / 25
That’s better 7’ 56.603; try again a clean lap at 7’ 51.425 that is getting very
close to the cars limit, drat! Car is handling well with some mild oversteer and
is much more stable over bumps than Pete’s car.
Right! One more lap, full speed ahead and d**n the torpedoes. I set my beret on
my head at a jaunty angle, light a Gitane and head off. I am flying and 3.5
seconds up approaching Galgenkopf, okay stay left and look for my exit and oh
no! I’ve put a wheel onto the grass, the car slews violently to the left and I
struggle to correct but I have no control and the Armco is getting bigger and
bigger and bigger, can this be the end of Ricco?

I wake with a start, what?? I lurch out of bed and stagger to the window and
there in the yard is Pete’s car, untouched! Now I remember! Pete left his car
with me as he was going to tie one on with some mates last night, Mum always
said it was a bad idea to eat cheese and drink red wine for supper as it always
gave me nightmares.
I look at Pete’s car, I wonder if those suspension changes I had in mind would
work?
The sun glints suggestively off the windscreen
-------

Thanks Oldguy for a great BR™, I thought it was a hoot! Having the background
story added an extra dimension to my futile efforts, although getting within 15
seconds is probably alright after giving up 92 Hp
I think both cars have great potential and if properly sorted would hold their
own with many bigger cars.
I hope to get the chance to post my Toyota Autobacs RR™soon as I love that Car!!

From: Flibutz | Posted: 9/21/2005 3:16:03 AM

BR:
Since this BR consists of several cars, I'll treat them separately.

Car 1: (new car) FPV GT '04 in Winter White
Cost: 48,640cr.

Upgrades:

Wing
R1 tyres
Sports Exhaust
Racing Chip
NA Tuning Stage 1
Weight Reduction Stage 1
Sports Suspension
Sports Clutch
Sports Flywheel
Free Oil Change

Total of 15,577.5 Cr. after discounts.

At first, this one was somewhat reluctant to turn. But the problem was easily
fixed this time. Just added some front camber and used hard shocks in front and
even harder in the rear. It's still not as responsive as it could be, but
overall it handles good and the understeer is very slight. It responds well to
light trailbraking. It's 475hp/1606kg(sell screen) now, and my best lap was 7'11
making it the fastest of the four. Downsides of this car are its overly tall
fifth gear, and absence of the sixth. Should probably have bought the close
gearing. Furthermore, it looks ugly with the wing, but most cars do. That's one
of the reasons I always have one of everything in stock condition before tuning
the other. More importantly, some mods are irreversible. Used TCS @ 1

Car 2: (under 10,000Cr.) Used Isuzu Piazza XE '81 in Ceruleanblue Metallic
Cost: 8,627Cr.

Upgrades:

Wing
R1s
Sports Suspension
Weight Reduction Stage 1
Racing Chip
Sports Clutch
Stage 1 Turbo
Racing Brakes
Sports Exhaust
Semi-Racing Flywheel
Oil Change (free)
Rigidity Refresher (free)

Total of 15,100 after discounts

The Isuzu was a pleasant surprise. I actually chose it because it's one of the
ugliest cars in the game (huge wing was a nice finishing touch to it's
ugliness), and out of curiosity. (just how crappy is it going to be?) It turned
out to have a fair amount of grip, and the handling was quite neutral to begin
with, so setting it up was easy. When pushed too hard, though, it sometimes
exhibits sudden and quite severe understeer. Sell screen stats are 180hp/1118kg
now. Best laptime was 8'14, so it's the slowest of the bunch which is not
surprising. No aids used.

I'll have to cut this in half..

BR part 2:

Car 3: (FF) Used Honda Integra Type R (DC2) '99 in Sunlight Yellow
Cost: 16,353Cr.

Upgrades:

Wing
Sports Suspension
R1 Tyres
Weight Reduction Stage 1
Racing Chip
Stage 2 Turbo
Racing Brakes
Sports Clutch
Semi-Racing Exhaust
Free Oil Change

Total of 23,200 after discounts

I remember driving this car in GT3, and I liked it then. An Integra R was also
featured in one of the license tests (Suzuka guide run), and it felt like it
could be very good without the ASM. I still used 1 "point" of TCS, though. The
price was right, and I liked the colour, so I bought it. I was not disappointed.
It's geared perfectly for the 'ring, it's both stable and responsive, and
controllable with the throttle. Accelerate, and the line widens. Lift off the
throttle and the turn radius tightens rapidly. And it sounds good. Specs are
279hp/1015kg and 7'47.

Car 4: (wildcard) Hommell Berlinette R/S '99 in Jaune Italien
Cost: 47,360Cr.

Upgrades:

Wing
Weight Reduction Stage 1
R1 Tyres
Sports Suspension
Racing Chip
NA tune Stage 2
Semi-Racing Exhaust
Sports Clutch
Sports Flywheel
Free Oil Change

Total of 21,050Cr. after discounts

This was the most exciting of the bunch. At first, it oversteered like there's
no tomorrow. I might have bought my first 2-way LSD if I hadn't run out of
credits. After messing around with the settings I got it under control, halving
the front downforce was the main key to stabilizing the Berlinette. I'm glad I
didn't have the loot to buy the LSD, even my mother says I shoudn't use it. But
what I do miss is the racing brakes. I should have used more cost-efficient mods
for the Integra. But anyway, the car was nothing short of spectacular. Careful
utilization of the lift-throttle oversteer paid off splendidly, and this was the
car I liked the most. It was slower than the FPV, though. But at
248hp/921kg/7'27 this car is no lemon, even in yellow. The gearing turned out to
be perfect, too. As an added bonus, the wing actually looks good on this one
(the first one on the list, black). As usual, 1pt of TCS was used.

Whew. Four reviews in a row. Good thing I drank that extra cup of coffee this
morning.

Summary:

Total price of the cars: 120,980Cr.
Total price of upgrades: 74,927.5Cr.
Combined laptime: 30'39

[vitg]

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/21/2005 3:29:33 AM

Flibutz- I wouldn't consider Umbria Hard too hard, but I love that track. If it
were 13 (or even 5) miles long, I'd drive it more than I drive the 'Ring!
Technical doesn't even begin to describe it, and getting a clean pass is a great
challenge.

Viperinthegrass- Sure enough, that was a Zaphod quote. Unfortunately, I can't
remember where he said it, or why! It's been a looong time since I read the
books, and a few years since I've watched the whole series. I've heard from a
mostly reliable friend that the movie totally ****ed things up, so I won't pay
money to watch it.
---
From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/21/2005 4:29:00 AM

Flibutz- excellent work on the BR. I'd forgotten about the Berlinette, it's been
so long since it was WR.

I'm going to have to fix my own BR attempt, I forgot the 100hp minimum rule.

As for the RR, the Lancia Delta S4 is actually one I already have. I agree with
MrPinstripes, if Citta di Aria was a bit longer, it'd be my favorite. The S
license test with the Alfa Duetto on that track is where I fell in love.

The key to getting the S4 'Ringable will be lowering the ride height, stiffening
the springs, and setting the bound/rebound according to the instructions: bound
should be half of the rebound with the engine side having more than the non
engine side (3 over 6 in front of 2 over 4 in an FR car, for example). The
actual values you choose are up to you, but those are the changes I recommend,
anyway.

The Lancia Delta Integrale Rally Car was a BLAST to drive on the 'Ring (I used
it for Oldguy's BR). If you stretch out the gears, be careful of making them too
wide. The acceleration is part of the fun, and I'm assuming (hoping) the S4 has
the same virtue.
---

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/21/2005 10:19:53 AM

I included the 100+HP rule to eliminate some of the dirt cheapo cars that cost
like 5,000 credits. Most of them aren't any fun to drive anyway.

My four writeups will follow shortly.
---
From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/21/2005 12:13:16 PM

So I got a little tweaked and decided to go on a little car shopping spree. I
had a hundred or so thousand credits begging to be wasted, so off I went in
search of some new iron to play with.
The first car I selected was a brand-new Pontiac GTO. Its 5.7L, 350-HP
small-block would provide adequate motivation, I figured, and for a hair over
34,000, a hard deal to beat. So it looks like a Cavalier. So what? I can't see
the outside of the car when I'm driving anyway.

Still though, I felt I'd need something to haul the family, and there was no way
I was getting Aunt Ethel in the back seat of a GTO--not with her hip. So I
headed down the road to the local Mazda dealer and picked me up a
front-wheel-drive Mazda6i 5-door. I've driven the 6 in the past and liked it, so
I thought why not pick one up? Too bad there were no V6 models available. Oh
well, the 4-cylinder will suffice.
While I was waiting for them to find my Mazda on the lot, I was leafing through
the classifieds, and that's when I saw it. 1969 Camaro SS, orange/white stripes,
350, 4sp, mint, 60,000 firm. I HAD TO HAVE IT. As soon as the Mazda was ready I
hauled ass down to that guy's address, dropped a stack of bills on his door and
drove off in the delightfully unrefined rolling obscenity that is the Camaro SS.

With all this power, I felt like I should get something a little more
economical. As much as I like these three cars, I thought maybe I should get a
cheap runabout to go to the store and back. I didn't have much money left, so it
had to be cheap. Again I looked through the classifieds and spied a well-worn
'83 Toyota Sprinter Trueno for sale, for just over 5 grand. It had the 5-speed.
It was in good shape. So that also became mine.
Four cars, four days, and a lot of tweaking to do.
---

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/21/2005 12:28:18 PM

Even with the discounts at the local speed shop, my remaining budget was a
little tight. I'd have to spend wisely if I was to improve all four of these
cars. I decided that addressing their shortcomings was more important than just
adding power. The first car I started screwing with was the GTO. It's a modern
car, with a big motor, good suspension, solid brakes, and is all around a pretty
good package. I picked up a set of racing tires, a stage 1 weight redux and a
sport suspension kit, and felt that would be enough. With a total spent of only
6400 credits, this was the least I spent on any car by a wide margin. A quick
oil change netted me about an extra 20 ponies (settings screen) so off I went to
the track to see what she'd do.
It seems understeer is a problem in this car, a problem the simple bit of tuning
afforded by the suspenion kit couldn't cure. Still it wasn't terrible, and I
managed to score a time of about 8 minutes without much difficulty. It's a
well-rounded car to start with. It just needed a few tweaks.

Next up was the Mazda. Again, a S1 weight drop was ordered along with R1 tires.
To this I added a sports suspension, sports exhaust and a stage 2 turbo kit, to
the tune of 13,425 credits after discounts. The Mazda had a bit less power, but
otherwise was a solid performer on the track. Like most front-drivers it had a
tendency to understeer, but lifting the throttle or giving some brakes corrected
it easily. It did run out of gear on the final straight, but still a time of
8:15 isn't bad for a car with only about 230 or so HP.

The next car I decided to tackle was the Trueno. It had the least power by far
(only 115HP) and would need the most help. The rest of the car was fine though.
A stage 2 turbo was added along with a racing exhaust kit, S1 weight redux, R1
tires and a semi-race suspension kit. In all I spent over 20,000 cr on this
ride, and the benefits were quite noticeable. The extra power really helped the
car stretch its legs on the uphill section between Bergwerk and the Karussell
(an area where the car actually lost speed before) and while I still ran out of
gear on the last straight, the car pulled strong and handled superbly--even let
me hang the tail out some. Unfortunately it wasn't enough to catch the rest, and
at 8:25 was the slowest of the group.

Then there's the Camaro...hoo boy. This car needed help. LOTS of help. It's got
plenty of power--that's a 350 small block under that hood, and it pulls 300
horses dead stock. Its main problems lie in its transmission, suspension and
brakes. The 4-speed in this car forces it to top out early and often,
gear-limited to 120 MPH. The brakes are 1969 technology, and aren't up to
stopping this car in any sort of timely fashion. The suspension is soft, wallowy
and has far too much roll, squat and dive. I blew almost all the remaining
budget fixing the Camaro--over 32,000 credits in fixes, which included a FC
transmission (full price), brakes, semi-race suspension, R1 tires and a S1
weight drop. After these modifications were done, I added a stage 2 NA upgrade
to boost power up to 374, figuring hey why not?
Tuning was required. The first thing I did was spread those gears out--a LOT. I
also lowered the final drive ratio (down to 3.56:1 from 3.89:1) and stiffened up
the suspension as much as I felt would benefit. (can't go too stiff, this is a
bumpy track). The tuning and testing rewarded me with an eager track car, that
could go, stop and turn with the best of modern machinery. My final time was
7:56.2, well ahead of the rest.
---

From: Flibutz | Posted: 9/21/2005 12:55:29 PM

I just wanted to report my very first clean lap with the Delta S4. I lost count
of the laps I've done, but they are numerous. Anyway, the laptime was 6'49.980.
Once, I was leading a ghost of 6'56 by 10 seconds at the last split, but lost it
by spinning out. Until the spinout, that lap felt very good. Anyone getting it
under 6'45 will get two cookies in exchange for settings. I've run a 6'49.330
too, but I screwed up and bounced from a wall in such a way that it might have
actually been beneficial so it doesn't really count.

I set the VCD at 20, and front LSD to 5/5/5, and I'm pretty sure that was a good
call.

wanderingmuse- I haven't driven the Integrale yet, but it probably differs quite
a bit from the S4. It is front engined whereas the S4 is mid-engined, and it
lacks the supercharger that gives the S4 the wide powerband that is one of it's
virtues. Because of that, the S4 doesn't seem to suffer too much from widening
the ratios.

I also tried the M5 on the 'Ring for the first time. I'm not going to try and
describe it because I'll just run out of superlatives. It beat all of the
production cars I've tried on the 'Ring hands down with a time of 7'13.957.

MrPinstripes - Ok, so I'll have to try the DB9 out soon after all. I mean, I
liked the Vanquish, just how good the DB9 will be?
---
From: viperx2002 | Posted: 9/21/2005 6:21:35 PM

My problem with Colin Mcrae is trying to control the cars with the keyboard
sucks
---
"The greatest burden is great potential" - Charles M. Schulz


From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/21/2005 7:11:58 PM

Ew. Yeah, that's why I got the XBox version.
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/21/2005 7:44:25 PM

Rallying is such a depressing topic. I don't mind Skylines, it's that 5 second
penalty I'd like to smack into the wall at 130mph.

Who's picking WR this week? Any clues?

Of all the BR cars folks are driving this week, who's had the most pleasant
surprise on the track?
---
From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/21/2005 8:40:26 PM

Whomever picked the last WR is supposed to appoint the next chooser.
---
From: Nito_Musashi | Posted: 9/21/2005 9:23:14 PM

Well after setting my best lap in my Saleen S7 the gear box decided to give up
the ghost, break pads were on their last legs, and the body needed some work
after a brush in armco....not bad just the breaks didn't have quite the grip I
normaly expect and scraped the armco. Still bad enough in a Saleen.

So while that car was being repaired, skipping the whole adventure of finding
someone would work on a Saleen in Germany, it was time to find some new cars.

First car Mitsubishi FTO GPX '97 with 23,160 odd miles, 14,965 cr. I like
Mitsubishi cars they look good usually are a fun ride. Bumped it up with:
Racing exhaust
Turbo stage 1
Racing breaks
Sports Suspension
Spots Clutch
Spots flywheel
Weight Reduction 1
Total 15,052.50
Then some free oil change and a bit of Rigidity Refreshing and it was off to the
track.

I tried to have fun, the car was not awful, but it was heavy, responsive enuf i
suppose but not very peppy. Lap times were 9'01.something and 9'02. something. I
expected more thrill bit more pizazz something but could just not find it.

I suppose that some more weight loss some engine work and there was a fun car in
there somewhere, but on a budget it was on to the next car.

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/21/2005 9:49:24 PM

Nice pick for the RR, Flibutz! It feels like you're running low 6's, instead of
high 6's. You're right that the picks have been a bit too tame lately. The Delta
S4 is frighteningly wild.

I really suck at suspension tuning. I just softened it up more than it already
was (front max soft) and adjusted the gearbox. And I apparently went the wrong
way with the VCD, increasing it instead of decreasing it. I haven't been able to
get the understeer out of it yet. I'll try your settings (VDC and LSD) and see
if it helps.

My best lap has been a 6'53.9...and that was with bouncing off both guardrails
after Sprunghugel...which wasn't all that bad because you're supposed to be
slowing down there anyway.

If anyone thinks they've really nailed the suspension settings, I'd appreciate
it if you'd post everything. This car is so fun to drive I'd like to see what
it's really capable of.

And BTW, "fun" does not equal "easy". This car is definitely a handful to keep
between the armco's!!
---

From: Nito_Musashi | Posted: 9/21/2005 9:58:11 PM

TVR car are odd to me, they always seem to look like other cars, the
Cerbera...Viper with a ugly front end, but cruising a used car showroom I come
across a TVR V8S '91 she had 45,700 miles or so, this TVR looked like an old
Jaguar to me. But heck it was a light car with good horsepower, cost 25,000 cr
ish(the store reset after i bought it so i didnt get the exact). And Jaguar
styling is not wholly unappealing to me. So i bought her.

Took her to an official TVR place and went on a shopping spree:
Racing exhaust
Sports chip
Turbo stage 1
Racing brakes
Sports suspension
Sports clutch
Weight reduction 1 and 2
NA tuning 1
Slapped down 24,917.50 cr, and they happily changed my oil and did a refresher
on the frame for me being such a good customer.

Now to have some fun and sprint back to Nurburgring, first "lap" shes got zip,
shes got jazz, but she awful loose. Get her in and nip down to a local garage
and have the suspension dropped, little more in the front than rear, made the
font shocks softer and the back harder, put some camber in the front and back,
ripped out the ASM controllers. and was off to the n'ring.

Now this is what driving is about she barrels nicely down the straights, can
throw her into turns and she bites. Just a fun ride indeed, suspension seemed to
be dialed in she would turn a lap in 8'15 and probably less with some more
practice.

Only nagging bit as with all TVR cars i hear, have to have a bug or two. This
cars was on bumps the windshield wipers liked to turn on, a switch or circuit of
some sort imagined but other than that very pleased with this car.

Even when i got a bit more aggressive after turning in a few good clean and safe
laps when i nipped off into the grass a time or two she would recover no problem
and be right back on the road.

All in all very nice TVR "Jaguar" V8S '91, recommed it for some fun laps.
to be continued.

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 9/21/2005 10:44:06 PM

As the last baton holder for the WR™, it is up to me to pass it on, however I
have had an idea I would like to propose for this week.
New boy stands up at the back of the class “excuse me sir, if it pleases sir”
class giggles and throws spitballs at new boy, “ I was wondering if perhaps
everyone could select a car from their BR™ selections to use as a WR™ this week
prior to adding any modifications”.
New boy sits down red faced and appalled at his temerity.
What do you think of this idea? I only suggest it as self defence, as if I try
to fit in any more driving this weekend, there is not a Jury in the land that
would convict my Wife. If this is poor etiquette, I can pass it on to jwrebholz,
as he seems to be having fun picking cars at the moment.

Hope everyone is far away from Rita , stay safe.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/22/2005 4:35:04 AM

Nito- excellent work! The TVR V8S was an early favorite of mine in this game,
and is very fun indeed. It's only flaw is being a convertible that can't let
it's top down. Otherwise, it's an absolute little blast to drive, especially in
a BR context.

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/22/2005 5:51:31 AM

I'm with muse on this one. Let's have a pick for WR. Everyone is welcome, and
encouraged, to test-drive previous picks anytime they're it tickles their fancy.

---

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/22/2005 7:07:08 AM

So I've been nominated then, I suppose.

S***, I better get moving. I gotta find a car by tomorrow! (Not that I expect
this to be a problem. There are more than 700 cars in the game. ONE of them
should be good to try, and I think I already have a couple of ideas. No hints,
as there's no time)

Now let me see. Just to warn you guys, I MAY pick a prize car, but I won't pick
anything that's too hard to win if I do.
---
From: Von | Posted: 9/22/2005 9:52:27 AM

Pick the Sauber.
You know you want to.
Even if it is a Race car and this is WR.
Sauber.

Have you guys done the Ford Mustang GT 05 yet?
A volvo?
t3H 1337 SKYL1|\|3?
---
Tiny subaru versus gigantic german deathring!-Amarynceus


From: Von | Posted: 9/22/2005 9:53:44 AM

I love these threads. They are responsible for 1/3 of my has-no-life.. I mean
Karma, 1/3 of my Karma.

Legend in 2 days.
---

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/22/2005 10:27:58 AM

I'm pretty sure the Mustang GT was done. Don't think we've done a Volvo, but if
I did there's only one worth mentioning--the S60R. (I don't think anyone wants
to drive Mom's station wagon on the 'Ring, least of all ME)

I've been looking at a couple cars. While I can't give you hints as to the car
I'll pick (because it isn't picked yet) I can tell you what I haven't picked.
1. 1987 Buick GNX--4-speed automatic + loads of understeer + 1600kg curb weight
= no fun. Sure it's fast--I hit a drag-limited 140MPH at one point--but fast
does not equal fun.
1991 Toyota Supra 2.5 Turbo R --This car actually felt really ponderous to me.
It had plenty of power and a nice exhaust note, but it pushed a little too much,
and despite its power it seemed a little slow to accelerate.

I'm not even going to consider the Sauber. That's more car than I can handle.
I would LOVE to use the Solstice Concept, but it's just too hard to get a hold
of. (Silver medal in S license)

I briefly considered the Tacoma..but then I remembered the conniption everyone
had over the Lightning (including me) so no. (Especially when you consider the
Tacoma has many of the same habits)

I'm hoping to find something a little unusual, something that maybe most people
overlooked. Maybe I have something in my garage that I haven't driven in a
while...

Oh well. Back to looking!

[vitg]

From: Nito_Musashi | Posted: 9/22/2005 10:54:16 AM

ty yea i was suprised i never drove the tvr V8S before, but it really is a
nice ride with alot of pickup and nimble handling. i ended up taking 8 or 9 laps
in that car just to throw it round the track and have some fun. i might have to
mod it out to the max and try it some day.

Day two of the BR fun.

My next trip was to the Volkswagon dealer, I try to hate VWs, they have 0
sexiness, looks like 0 aerodynamics. The interiors are nice but nothing great.
Then you drive a VW and you couldn't care less if it looked like a garbage truck
while your driving it.

I looked over the options, and saw hmm a 4 wd VW Golf IV '03 for 43,240 cr, yet
again not a pretty car by lest by my stretch of the imigination, but it didn't
look awful in blue plus the break pads matched the paint....hey. I could not
recall having driven a 4 wd VW before, so i plopped down my cr and headed right
to the tune shop.

Semi Racing Suspension
Carbon driveshaft
Racing Brakes
Racing Exhaust
NA tuning stage 1
Level 2 weight reduction
Everything else standard.
Parts total 22,100 cr.

It took some suspension tweaks, and again ripping out ASM controllers. My first
runs it was better than stock this car liked to throw out its back end. Made it
fun powersliding through turns. So a few more tweaks later to make the back end
a little more stable i headed back.

Now i hate VW styling with a certain passion, but driving a VW especially a
302hp 4wd beast with a back end that slides nicely taking turns hot. Can you say
yummy?

She would barrel down straights power into turns, side the back end out through
and come out nicely. There were a few grab the wheel and counter steer to keep
the car on the road moments. but even the worst episode that had me correcting 3
times heading into Schwalbenschantz (i really was having a blast ) were
managable and tho exciting i never felt i was loosing the car. Laps in the 8'15
or so.

Another winner a 4wd on the n'ring for a fun afternoon car.


From: Nito_Musashi | Posted: 9/22/2005 11:40:43 AM

I had pretty much blow my parts budget on the first 3 cars, plus the billls for
the Saleen were staring to come in...... Now i had to find a decent car under
10.000cr and i did not have enough for the tune shop sale of a free ridigity
refresher so hopefully i got a car that the frame wasn't torqued so bad the
thing would pull every way but straight.....

I headed for a few new cars dealers that might have a cheap ride but some close
but nothing under 10k cr, so finally made my way to the used car showroom. Took
a bit of looking but hmm a Skyline GTSt type M '91 with 38,386 miles and on sale
for the amazing price of 9,313 cr.

Now i really didn't want to think about what had happened in or to that car to
make it so cheap w relatively few miles on it......but it was a nice metallic
gray and it looked mean on the showroom floor plus nothing seemed grossly bent
out of shape nor could i see any bodily fluids on the seats or anything so hey i
got a new used car.

I know i had driven skylines in the past but honestly i could not remember much
about them, weither i liked them or hated them or was indifferent to them, but i
know i had never driven one on the n'ring and now with my limited parts budget
took it to a tune shop.

Turbo 1
Carbon driveshaft
Weight reduce 1
Sport suspension
Racing Brakes
Sport exhaust
racing chip
racing flywheel
oil change
grand total 12,425 cr

I wasn't quite sure what to expect of the car but first thing i did before even
taking it to the track was to hit a garage and do some suspension changes that
seemed to make sense for the car.

Reaching the track i told myself just take it easy, get a feel for the car. That
plan was completely out the window by Flugplatz or so.

This car just wanted to go fast, my brain said get to know her she was like put
that damn pedal down. So before i know it i am powering through turns with the
roar of a very deep good sounding engine roaring in approval. The back end would
swing out nicely, with gentle counter steer she would come right back in line.
Lap times in the 8'20s on my first runs. Again another nice fun ride.

So out of 4 cars one dissappointment 3 very nice rides. That mitsubishi is
going to a junk yard tho.


From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 9/22/2005 4:26:23 PM

Okay I will make it official then, the pick for WR™ this week goes to -
(extended drum roll) - jwrebholz!


From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/22/2005 5:19:30 PM
The WR pick will be announced tomorrow morning before 6 AM EDT.

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/23/2005 2:53:41 AM

Ask and ye shall recieve. The Weekend Rider for this weekend (that's a little
redundant, isn't it?) is the 2003 Mazda6 5-door! Yes, it's a front-driver, but
it actually responds pretty well. It's pretty good for a four-cylinder family
sedan.
---

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/23/2005 3:28:33 AM

Man, work sucks. I didn't get home until 8:45, and pretty much went straight to
bed.

JW- That's one I haven't driven yet. I was going to snag it for the BR, but
decided on the Protege instead.

As long as it doesn't handle like a Honda (all of their FF cars unsteer
horribly), I shouldn't have an issue with it.

Later.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/23/2005 4:26:15 AM

If it weren't for BR mandates and WR picks, I'd wager that very few FF cars
would make it around the 'Ring driven by this crowd. Kind of like when your mom
forces you to eat broccoli, knowing that it's good for you, and eventually
you'll like it, with cheese, anyway. Maybe it's not like that at all. Oh well.

Didn't PD leave the drivetrain information out of the game for the Mazda 6? I'd
been wondering what it was.

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/23/2005 4:22:46 PM

All front-wheel-drive cars understeer. The Mazda6 understeers less than most.
It's easily controlled and once you build up a head of steam it's actually fun
to toss around. I've driven the car in real life, and that's what made me think
of it. It really does handle well for a FWD sedan.

That said, I'm sure SOMEONE isn't going to like it. I won't mention any names,
but I'm sure he'll blow through here sooner or later.
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/23/2005 6:33:48 PM

The Mazda 6 5-door definitely goes on the good list of FF cars. I ran two laps,
the best of which was 8:57.

However, Flugplatz wide open throttle, and Schwedenkruez wide open throttle,
tends to mean the car is fun to drive.

Good call, JW

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/23/2005 7:00:50 PM

The Mazda's front brakes are very strong, so the back tires lift easily (like a
forklift approaching from the front and raising the rear axle). Someone who
wanted to "get it sideways" shouldn't have much problem doing so, at speed.

Anyway, if I can do 8'57, that means someone could probably approach 8'45, give
or take a few ticks. I honestly like the look and feel of the car. It belongs on
the 'Ring.

Mine's Titanium Gray, and at Las Vegas I got 16.799. I've driven very little
this week, so I need to catch up on my BR and also test out the Lancia S4. All
in it's own time.

Sorry for double posting. Y'all take care.

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/23/2005 7:05:17 PM

See, that's why I picked it, Muse. While there are several FF cars prone to
lift-throttle oversteer, few are quite as controllable as the 6. She may not be
fast, but she's eager.
Try boosting it up to about 200 horsepower (I think a stage 1 NA Tune oughta get
you there) and that should give you an idea of the V6 version that somehow got
left out of this game.
---
From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/23/2005 7:47:13 PM

Just a few final words on the Lancia S4. DAMN that's a fun car!!! Does anyone
else ever get muscle cramps in their jaw? I had to consciously open my mouth to
stop clenching my teeth and relax my jaw muscles while driving this car. That's
always a GOOD sign.

Using Flibutz's VCD and LSD settings, I was able to get down to a 6'51
flat...more, I think, just due to the additional seat-time than to the
adjustments. I know I was still leaving a lot on the table. I'd still like to
get the settings from someone who can nail the setup on this thing. Squeezing
another 5 or 6 seconds out of it would be GREAT fun.

As for the Mazda 6 5-door, I'll start with the bad: It's a FF, 175-hp family
sedan with far too tall gears. Now, the good: FOR a FF 175-hp family sedan, it
was really quite fun! I found myself running several more laps than I had
planned to, shaving a couple seconds off each additional run, down to a final
lap of 8'51.3. The understeer was very manageable. The brakes are superb. And
the torque band was very even from low to high RPM's.

I think it's good to have someone pick an underpowered car once every few weeks.
With the mega-powered monsters we usually drive on the 'ring, small mistakes can
usually be overcome by an additional tap on the brake pedal and mashing the gas
again. With a car like this, however, that's not the case. If you enter a corner
a tad too fast and have to tap the brakes to keep it out of the armco, you're
screwed. You're going to be a few MPH too slow until the next braking point. It
re-teaches proper cornering skills.

A question for the DS2-users: The brakes on this car seemed ultra sensitive. I
literally just laid my big toe on the brake pedal coming into most of the
corners. Can you be that gentle on the brakes with the controller, or do you
have to just tap it quickly? (Just curious)
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/23/2005 11:36:02 PM

Oldguy, you nailed what I couldn't quite express. Every second and mph counts
with low powered cars, and therein lies one of their joys.

As for the DS2 braking, it's either a quick tap to get the booty around, or
slight continuous pressure for braking longer distances.

From: Flibutz | Posted: 9/24/2005 1:19:23 AM

WR:

The Mazda6 is the most pleasant surprise of the few WRs I've yet to take part
in. At first I thought "Doh. That's going to be dull. Well, let's try it
anyway.." But I was horribly wrong in my judgement. I actually like this car
very much. I think it's a shining example of just how a front-wheel drive car
should handle. I rarely even drive FF cars, maybe I should try more of them out.
With the Madza, I had no understeer issues that I often have with FF cars and it
loves to be trailbraked. Hey, I love to trailbrake, so we got along just fine
with the Mazda. This car could definitely handle more power than it has. I might
try it with the V6 specs, some extra hp and a little ballast towards the front
should do the trick.

I totally agree with you guys more about how the low power emhazises the
importance of exit speeds. When I did my best lap I saved a full second compared
to my ghost from just a better exit from Bergwerk. That best lap was a 8'45.

As for the DS2 braking, it is like muse said for me, too. I have a slight
advantage though because I use a Madcatz pad now that has a lot better
progressive action with the buttons. They are so good I actually have better
control over the brakes and acceleration than over the steering!

As for the Delta S4 settings, I'm pretty much clueless now. I've tried some
changes but while some of them felt good, anything I try seems to make the car
slower. Maybe I'll go check if there are good tarmac settings for it in the
GTVault.

Oldguy - I get a tight jaw too from driving the likes of the Delta. We also seem
to share the same opinion about the S4. The reason why I chose it is because fun
doesn't equal easy and because frightening cars are often a lot of fun (though
often a bit frustrating at the same time).
---
Relax. Have a homebrew.

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/24/2005 2:45:16 AM

For those who want to try the V6 Mazda6, it has 220HP and weighs about 200 lbs
more (not just the engine--the car's overall weight is heavier due to some
options not on the lower model) so I'd say add about 90kg ballast centered (the
car's weight distribution DOES NOT CHANGE--6i and 6s are both 60/40 f/r) and get
her up to about 220 ponies/190lb-ft torque and you should have an accurate
representation. (specs pulled from http://www.mazdausa.com)
---

From: Flibutz | Posted: 9/24/2005 3:50:55 AM

Thanks for getting the specs, jwrebholz.

However, if a car has a weight balance of 60/40, you should set the ballast to
-10 to keep the weight balance from evening out. The difference will probably
not be noticeable in this case though.

The Delta S4 settings:
I tried the only road setup for it that was to be found in GTVault (left out the
mods and aids, tho). It was made by sub_lethal, I've tried his setups before and
liked them. With his settings, the Delta was really very nicely tamed. It's far
more controllable than with any settings I've tried, but I couldn't match my
previous times for some reason. I might try some kind of cross between my setup
and his. The suspension part especially seemed to work well.
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/24/2005 6:56:37 AM

I flipped my suspsension settings on the S4 and it became much more driveable. I
don't know if that makes it slower or not, but I only killed myself once instead
of seven times.

By flipped I mean: I made the rear higher, stiffer, and with higher bound and
rebound than the front. I don't have the actual values right yet, but it was a
step in the right direction, as it really settled the car down.

The sub seven minute lap times (which mine aren't, but y'all have posted) tell
me the S4 could smoke the 24 hour race. I think that makes this WR "Making the
Lancia S4 Touring Car." Which is pretty neat, and hopefully will happen again
with future rally WR's.

Peace.

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/24/2005 7:03:37 AM

As others have said- Nice pick, JW. It's certainly no Honda.

I don't have the natural aversion to FF cars that others seem to exhibit (not so
much here, but elsewhere on the boards/in life), so I was interested pretty
quickly. As usual, I'm on N2 tires, with 78 kilos ballast at -10, no driving
aids. Like Muse, I also picked a Titanium Gray one. I shopped for new wheels,
but didn't find any I liked.

The 6 had my attention around the first corner (before the start line). Squeeze
the brakes, NOSE DIPS DOWN, and car turns smartly. Yummy. I do love cars with
soft suspensions and lots of travel.

My first run was a "realistic" one- I drove very conservatively, braking early
and being cautious around trouble spots. I did get a bit of grass-n-mud on the
fenders, but not enough to fail a license or lose control.

The 6 needs to shed about 100 kilos and gain about 50 horsepower to be a truly
exciting ride, but driving it is a wonderful experience. I may have to bust out
my Ibiza and Kusabi for a comparison run. The brakes are phenomenal, the
neutral-throttle handling perfect, and it has just enough lift-thottle
not-understeer (I wouldn't quite call it oversteer) to get you through the
corners with style.

I pushed a bit harder on the second lap, and got a bit more 'Ring leavin's on
the fenders for my efforts. When pushed, the 6 has a harder time overcoming it's
FF tendancies, but still drives remarkably well. Power-on understeer starts to
show up on sweepers, but the brakes will still let you brake very late and slam
the front around low-speed corners.

Times:

1st- 9'16.7
2nd- 9'10.1

Estimated Best- 9'05

Since the Protege that I picked up (and never drove) has near the same amount of
power but considerably less weight, I plan to give it a shot- if it handles as
nicely as its big sister, it should be a great car.

On a side note- Mazda seems to have a killer design team. Their new line just
doesn't have any ugly cars in it. Even that little poobox Demio looks good.

---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/24/2005 8:31:29 AM

and now, for something completely off topic:

The perfect rims for the RUF CTR Yellowbird are the PD0216 set found in the Used
Wheel Specials. It's a five spoke rim reminiscent of the classic porsche wheel.
You may not believe me when you buy it, but you will when you watch it on the
replays.

From: Onikaze | Posted: 9/24/2005 2:48:29 PM

Eh, my PS2 has been at my brother in laws for a while, but Mazda is a cool
maker, so I might try it whenever I get it back.

His doesn't play new games for crap, or old ones even.

Oh a bright note, I picked up a neat little Last Samurai Replica Katana for $12
today!

Rock on local Anime Store!
---
If I wanted to play as a girly and whiny emo guy I'd play one of the single
player FF games.BlackBladeRune on MGS2


From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/24/2005 5:59:37 PM

Wow. Looks like the Mazda's a hit.
I'm glad you guys are enjoying the car this weekend. I personally discovered it
during the Budget Rider this week. It's a car I wouldn't have even thought of
otherwise.

I can't believe PD left the 6s out. I can't understand why they did that.
Oh, if you really want to nail the 6s as closely as possible, get yourself a FC
trans and set the gears to the following:
1st: 3.153
2nd: 1.842
3rd: 1.258
4th: 0.947
5th: 0.733
Final Drive: 4.133. Ignore 6th gear on the FC if it shows up (the 6i and 6s both
have 5-speed manuals) These ratios aren't really that much different from the i,
and personally I'd say it isn't worth the effort (they're THAT close) but if you
wanna go all out...(again, specs pulled from http://www.mazdausa.com). The 6s also
comes with a 6-speed semi-automatic as an option. The ratios are as follows:
1st 4.148
2nd 2.370
3rd 1.555
4th 1.154
5th 0.859
6th 0.685
Final drive 3.464

Really surprising the amount of information manufacturers put on their websites.
---

From: Nito_Musashi | Posted: 9/25/2005 12:59:06 PM

tad off topic but....i am pretty psyched after alot of hard work.

6'16.818 saleen s7 clean lap, no nitrus, no spins, no armco, no grass trimmings,
and no wall riding. i can improve it but i need a break. pushing the saleen
hard on n'ring and trying to keep it clean is hard work .

[vitg]

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/25/2005 6:08:32 PM

So now that the weekend is nearly over, it's my duty to select the next person
to pick the Weekend Rider. Let me see. Who hasn't picked recently? (or at all)
I'd like to select my nominee by Tuesday so they have plenty of time to prepare.
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/25/2005 6:54:20 PM

If you were to set out to turn laps to "clear your head", which car are you most
likely to drive?

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/25/2005 8:43:41 PM

Something fast, but not crazy-fast, that handles very well. Probably an LM Race
Car, or a Touring car. If you want one car...I'd say the Camaro LM Race Car. My
second choice would be the '99 Evo VI (I think) which I found somehow "relaxing"
to drive. Very comfortable.
---

From: Nito_Musashi | Posted: 9/25/2005 9:27:17 PM

to clear my head i like the mercedes benz slr mclaren, its fast handles great
and i like the looks in the black color with black rims . mid 6 minute runs
are easy to do in it.

but decided to give myself a headache trying to tune a ruf ctr2 for n'ring,
looking at setups online i saw not one that seemed to work well on the ring. i
got it so least b spec bob on level 3 can keep the car on the road, for the most
part, and do mid 6'40 runs. but still trying to get some more stability in her
for good overall runs on ring. course having 0 mechanical car skills makes it
fun just messing w settings for hours on end.


From: Onikaze | Posted: 9/25/2005 10:43:23 PM
to clear my head?

M5
Lotus Elise 111R
Ruf CTR
BMW 330i
Ford GT

All of those get other thoughts right out of my head.
---
If I wanted to play as a girly and whiny emo guy I'd play one of the single
player FF games.BlackBladeRune on MGS2


From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/26/2005 3:15:35 AM

For a head-clearing, relaxing drive 'round the 'Ring, I'd probably go with the
Mazda 110S. It's lively enough to keep my attention on the road, but forgiving
(and slow) enough to not punish mistakes. You can have a conversation with the
wife between corners, and she appreciates that.

For a "focus on nothing but the game"-type run, I'd have to say the F1- that
takes complete concentration. Shift points, braking points, turn-in points,
everything is going by so fast you don't have time for thinking, let alone a
conversation.

I've called dibs on the RR this week (I'll announce Tuesday AM, EST). It should
be a fun one, and it should be a surprise (unless you know what I like, then it
might be pretty obvious).

JW- Throw me in at the bottom of the list for the WR. If no one else has any
ideas, I'll run mine.

From: vandy91298 | Posted: 9/26/2005 7:14:03 AM

I've just started running the 330i in Arcade mode to clear my head. For me, it's
perfect because I can take most of the corners I have trouble with flat out, and
running against the NSXs at the med-high difficulty levels provides a good
challenge (for me at least). Also, I like the fact that tire wear factors in
during arcade mode.
For reference: best "stock" arcade mode lap out of 9 laps run over 3 days (S3
"medium" tires, no TCS or ASM) = 8' 12.
Highly recommend the 330i to the less experienced 'ringers as an easy to drive,
yet not too slow car to learn with.

From: Onikaze | Posted: 9/26/2005 11:52:34 AM

I believe I called the BMW 330i one of the best cars in the game that us average
shmucks could actually afford.

All around, btw, not just for performance, as an elise is the same price but
faster, and older cars could totally own it.

Just as something to live with, that is a blast to drive, and looks nice.
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/26/2005 3:36:20 PM

How many laps does it take, or perhaps, how many corners?
--
From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/26/2005 3:48:17 PM

It takes me a good lap or two to calm down if I'm pissed. If I'm just a little
frustrated, I'm usually feeling even-keeled again by Bergwerk, or Pflanzgarten I
at the latest.

I have a philosophical question (I know that's not the right word, but my
vocabulary fails me)-

What's your "ideal" timeframe for a nice run on the 'Ring?

I seem to prefer cars that sit in the 8'30 to 9'30 range (on N2 tires). Much
faster than that and it gets too hectic, much slower and I start to enjoy it
less. There are, of course, exceptions, but that's what I prefer.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/26/2005 4:09:03 PM

I drive on S2's, but MrPinstripes, I do admire your penchant for simulation
rubber. I like cars anywhere from 7:30 to 9:15.

Some of my favorite rides are nine minute cars ('54 Vette on N2's is a good
example), so I know what you mean about it not having to be fast to be good.

I'd say my window of laps (needed to clear the fog) depends on the ease of car.
The Lotus Elan needs one lap, the Yellowbird needs three. The M5 might need
Flugplatz, at most, to take effect.

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/26/2005 5:08:03 PM

Muse, I think asking that question is like asking someone when they fall asleep.
You never remember the exact moment it happens. You just know it happened
because you have awoken (awakened?), or this case, came back to reality.

"Gamer's Nirvana", I think, is one of the reasons adults like playing video
games. It's an escape from stresses of reality.

I'm not really sure, but I think I enter the state of blissful idiocy fairly
quickly after starting a Nurb run. I know that small distractions (and large
ones) irritate me, not so much because it breaks my concentration, but because
it threatens to drag me, mentally kicking and screaming, back to "real life".

Not that my life is all that stressful that I NEED to escape it. I have very
little stress in my life. It's just that the GT4 world is such a pleasant place
(screeching tires...screaming engines...trees and guardrails reduced to a
blur...the place where I am the master of all four-wheeled things!!!), that it
annoys me when I am pulled away from it.

As for the lap-times I like best, I'd have to say 7 to 7'30. Something fast, but
not completely cooperative.

From: Onikaze | Posted: 9/26/2005 5:10:07 PM

7'00-8'00 on S2's, 7'30-8'30 on N3's, I don't care for times on N1's, I just
like trying to get an entire replay of awesome drifts around every corner.
---
From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/26/2005 7:15:21 PM

To clear my head I prefer cars that are reasonably quick, but also forgiving in
their control. The Mazdaspeed 6 and Pontiac Solstice are two cars I particularly
enjoy.

As for the cars I prefer to drive? I prefer to drive some mid-engined, but
mostly FR-type cars and a few FFs (I find most 4WD cars in the game rather
distasteful to drive on the 'Ring due to rampant and relentless understeer). If
they can make a lap between 7 1/2 and 8 1/2 minutes, it's good for me. Anything
slower I find frustrating. Anything faster is too difficult for me. There are
exceptions to the rule, but this is true for the most part.
---

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/27/2005 3:23:32 AM

I didn't get a chance to test-run my RR pick (for good intro material), so I'll
have to wait 'till after work. I'll post it around 5:00 EST.

Later.

From: viperx2002 | Posted: 9/27/2005 9:29:53 AM

To clear my head I prefer to go buy a random car test run it and then go back
and start upgrading it to see how far I can push it. Times vary with the type of
machine(obviously).
---

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/27/2005 2:01:42 PM

For the RR this week I've picked something...

Little!

Yellow!

Different!

Not Nuprin!

Our RR will be the '68 Honda S800 RSC Race Car, won from the World Compact Car
Championship in the Professional Hall. A Lotus Elise 111R with a Stage 2 turbo
can win it B-Spec without any problems.

Those of you with an aversion to slower cars might want to avoid this one (I
clocked in at 9'08.7 on R1 tires), though you'll be missing a nice ride if you
do. On the stock rubber, the S800 handles nicely, with a hint of oversteer just
when you'd want it. If you're up for an even slower ride, put some N2 tires on
it and go for a spin- race-grade slicks really take the character out of it.

The lack of power is painfully obvious uphill, and the gearing doesn't help much
for most of the track. I'd hesitate to change it too much, though, because you
should see redline in top gear on both the downhill grade after Aremburg and the
Dottinger-Hohe straight.

I've started to look for races to use the S800s (both the street and race
versions) in for points, but haven't found any good ones yet for the race car.
I'm trying to pull a miracle off in the 1,000 Miles! race with the stock car,
though.

Enjoy (I hope).

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/27/2005 3:23:47 PM

Well then. I've decided that wanderingmuse22 will pick the WR for this weekend.
I don't think he's picked lately (if ever) so it'd be a good chance for someone
new.

If for any reason he doesn't pick a car, MrPinstripes shall pick the WR.
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/27/2005 4:52:46 PM

I actually picked recently with the Cadillac Cien, so I must decline.

However, if you're reading this (yes, you), and you participate in the thread,
and you've wanted a chance to pick WR, but haven't yet, please, speak up! New
ideas and voices are not just welcome, they should be required.

That's not to say I don't have a car in mind, and MrPinstripes is no doubt an
excellent choice. His contributions to the thread are invaluable, but Shirley
someone wants (and deserves) a turn that hasn't had one yet.

From: fed76 | Posted: 9/27/2005 5:27:46 PM

Hey ring Fans

I've been reading the threads for a while now and wanted to join sooner but I
had to have 100% with 100% wins so I had to do it again after about a 85%.

Any way I will definately do the RR this weak and cant wait for a WR.

Best ring speed, 5:47 with Minolta on R3's.

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/27/2005 5:53:21 PM

Ah. Well in that case I'll just have to make an adjustment.

FED76 shall pick the next WR! Welcome to the club! See the first page for a
mostly complete list of picks, and please make your selection known sometime
Friday. Nice to see some new blood around here!
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/27/2005 7:42:55 PM

Well, it's "beast week" for me. I bought the big Zonda, the little Zonda, and
the Gillet Vertigo this weekend. I wanted to make the Vertigo the RR, but I was
beaten to the punch, which may turn out to be a good thing. The Vertigo may be
the first car I've driven that needed a rigidity refresh in one lap.

I have the 800 though, and I remember using it for yet another cup, but I'm not
sure which. The key, I've found, to enjoying the low powered rides on the 'Ring
is focusing on the wide open throttle where other cars would be braking, and not
to think too much about the long straight sections.

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 9/27/2005 8:46:19 PM

has there been a BR pick yet this week? I haven't seen one, skimming back
through the pages. Not that I have an idea or anything, but I'd certainly like
to use someone else's BR as a way to unwind after a couple of weeks with little
time for anything even resembling relaxation.
---
If a tree falls in the woods, does anyone care?

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/27/2005 9:15:47 PM

For the second time in one week, I was pleasantly surprised by the "fun factor"
of an low-powered car. The Honda S800 is a real treat to drive!

As Muse suggested, the fun from this car is seeing how long you can keep your
foot planted to the floor without lifting. The only real tuning challenge is
finding the right gearing. I ended up with the auto-set at 2, and then dropping
the final to 4.45. I think 4.50 would maybe be the perfect setting for the
final, but at 9 minutes per lap, I'd played around enough to get my impressions
of it, so I didn't make another run to see if I could better my time. If someone
wanted to take the time to experiment with each individual gear, they could
probably knock a couple more seconds off their time.

My first lap was a 9'17. I was shooting for a sub 9-minute run, but settled for
a 9'04 flat. I think it is very possible to get under the 9-minute mark, though.

For those of you who enjoy slipping and sliding, I think this car would be very
fun with S's or even N's. I, however, was tempted to throw some R5's on to see
what it could do! Maybe for fun, sometime, I'll max out the hp and do the R5's
just to see what happens.

Again, fun car and nice pick!!!
---
From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/27/2005 9:25:30 PM

No BR's this week, to my knowledge. If nothing is posted by tomorrow, maybe I
can come up with something. I blew most of my creativity with my last one,
though. So don't expect it to be as fun as that one.
---

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 9/28/2005 12:24:31 AM

Greetings from Oz

If no one else wants to, I have an idea for a BR™. I just need to check on a
couple of things re: availability etc.
I may be able to post details tonight.
I also have lots of other stuff I need to post on the Delta S4 & Mazda 6, as
well as asking for some advice and guidance of a technical nature. I have not
had the chance the last few days to do anything remotely resembling fun so I am
looking forward to getting back into the Diary.
More later.

From: Flibutz | Posted: 9/28/2005 2:25:21 AM

S800? Ha! Guessed it! Sounds like fun. I've thought about trying it out before,
but haven't got around to it. So many cars, so little time. That's one of the
cars I could never drive IRL even if I had one.. Wouldn't fit in. More on the
car when I've actually driven it.

Mazda6:
I've run few laps in my pseudo-V6 Mazda. The car has no problems handling the
extra power. But it doesn't like the ballast I threw in too much. The soft
suspension, while it still works good, has a little bit of more to support than
it'd like to. They might be using just a little bit stiffer suspension in the V6
(just a guess) to handle the extra weight. It would have been worthwhile to
include it in the game.

---
From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/28/2005 4:31:29 AM

Oldguy, there's no pressure with BR's. They're an optional feature, and are best
when an idea is had, rather than forced.

From: fed76 | Posted: 9/28/2005 7:27:34 AM

I'd love to pick the WR this weekend but it may take till tonight or so.

I ran the 800 and went 9:30 first lap, 9;22 second and 9:08 third. running
slower cars realy helps find the line better. I've been trying the high powered
race cars to much and I always am off the road. I think I could run under 9 but
it would be alot easier wtih some nitrous.

I would have posted last night but the brother decided he needed my computer so,
O well.

Question, how can I make an F1 more ring friendly?

[vitg]

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 9/28/2005 7:50:13 AM

Here's a BR if I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by grabbing it.

Volkswagen AG Challenge

75k to buy and mod any VW, Audi, or anything else falling under the VW flag. No
prize cars, and no HPA Golf. That's about it.

---
If a tree falls in the woods, does anyone care?


From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/28/2005 8:01:26 AM

No problem, fed76. You've got until Friday to pick a car--oh, and you aren't
supposed to announce it until Friday, either. You can give hints if you like,
but it isn't required.
---

From: Flibutz | Posted: 9/28/2005 11:09:19 AM

Wow. That S800 is really something else. It's like a Caterham without the
bouncing and understeer! I used the gearing oldguy suggested, but my computer
wasn't on so I remembered the final ratios the other way around (I thought he
said 4.450 would be ideal). But the 4.450 worked well enough. I even managed to
hit the rev limiter once right before Aremburg, but I was a little late braking
anyway. Other than that, I just lowered the ride height to the minimum, which
was still easily enough even for the bumpy 'Ring.

Like you guys said, there are exceptionally many full-throttle corners with this
car. The keyword is confidence. Trust the car to clear most of the corners at
full whack. I was filled with self-confidence, beacause (in case someone missed
my bragging topic) I got the last golds today. So, feeling invincible, off I
went to the 'Ring.

After a few laps, I got my BL of 8'53.5. Even more so than with the Mazda6, the
slightest things made a big difference. A low exit speed from a corner can have
an effect on speed for several kilometers, sometimes.

The VW BR sounds interesting, as I've not driven many of the eligible cars. Will
try it.

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 9/28/2005 1:31:59 PM

Glad people like my pick. I'm always a little nervous picking a rusty old
skateboard to make everyone else drive, since everybody seems to like faster
cars than me.

Flibutz- I'm not surprised at all that you guessed it. My madness has its very
distinct methods, most of which center around pre-1970's roadsters, and I think
the S800 is the only racecar that fits the bill. Congrats on the golds, too.

Soulidarity- Sounds like a fun BR, and much simpler than the ones JW and I like
to come up with. I'll give it a shot later in the week.

Fed- Welcome. Seems we're starting to use the same tactics for passing on the WR
torch that I use to hire singers...

Friend: I've always wanted to try singing...
Me: Good. You're in the band. Practice is on Tues. and Thurs. 7-9.
Friend: But I have...
Me: *cocks pistol* Tues. and Thurs. 7-9.
Friend: I'll be there.

Later, all.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/28/2005 3:59:56 PM

Funny tactics Mr Pinstripes- I guess that's along the line of it being
"business" and not "personal"?

I like the BR- it's a throwback. For a while most BR's were simple assignments
just like this. We've had a nice run of creative and clever challenges, so
something straightforward (and low cost, funny how some BR's will break you)
brings balance, I think.

That, and the low powered AWD Audi's and VW's are some of the best in the game,
especially the A3, though I don't know if it fits the price range.

Cars like the 800, the Lotus Elan, and other low speed treasures inspire a bit
of lament at the lack of a "create your own race/cup" feature in this game. I'd
like to be able to pick my specific opponents, track(s) and distances.

The racing in low power cars is often the most fun because the competition can
be very close. However, the AI's ability to compose a balanced competitive field
is well documented as non existant (either a slow pack that's too easy or one
good car that's too fast).

There's just enough such gems in the single make races and lesser cups, but it's
still not quite right- like a fountain drink with too much syrup or carbonation.

Anyway, y'all have a blessed evening.

Peace.


From: Soulidarity | Posted: 9/28/2005 4:05:54 PM

Audi S4 '98 Hibiscus Red Pearl - 46292
Transmission SC - 5700
Carbon Driveshaft - 3000
Suspension SR - 7400
Exhaust SR - 2900
Racing Brakes - 4700
Weight Reduction 1 - 1200
Racing Chip - 1500
Intercooler Sports - 1800
Oil Change - 50
Car Wash - 50

Grand Total - 74592

HP - 304
Weight - 1328

First lap - 8'27.828
Second lap - 8'16.610
Third lap - 8'15.104

Impressions - My first lap was run with all driving aids on and no driver
ballast. This was done for a few reasons. Having not played for two or three
weeks, I didn't want to jump straight back into the deep end. I needed to
re-familiarize myself with the course and the game controls. The car had a
tendency to swing the back end out ever so slightly, then heavily understeer.
This had the effect of making me try to react to the pseudo-oversteer, only to
have it slide off into the grass or rail when the understeer kicked in. It was
an extremely sloppy lap to say the least. My second lap, with all aids off and
my driver ballast (87 kg) added in, made a huge difference in the car's
handling. The rear end swung out freely (and sometimes unexpectedly on slightly
curvy "straights" such as the area following pflantzgarten), and the oversteer
was pretty easy to control. A more experienced drifter could probably make good
use of this car. Still I had a number of offs, even if less than half of the
first lap. The third lap was a slight improvement on paper, but didn't feel like
an improvement, as I made most of the same mistakes again, as well as some new
ones to counter any spots that I raced better than before. Overall, the S4 feels
a bit sluggish. It just doesn't have the punch that the S4 badge is known for.
The rev limiter was kicking in just under 140 mph, which severely limited my
runs on the straights, but the lack of power left me unwilling to tweak the
tranny at all. The oversteer was controllable most of the time, but would
occasionally show up at odd points as mentioned above. I really never felt like
I had this car fully under control, which accounted for most of my offs. All
runs were on the stock tires (S2s). At over 21000 miles it was in bad need of a
rigidity refresh, but that would have exceeded the budget even with no other
upgrades, so I had to do without.

Volkswagen Bora V6 4Motion '01 Reflexsiber Metallic - 38910
Weight Reduction 1 - 1100
Exhaust SR - 2850
Racing Brakes - 4600
Transmission FC - 10200
Suspension SR - 7200
NA Tune 1 - 4700
Racing Chip - 1250
Carbon Driveshaft - 2750
Flywheel Racing - 1000
Oil Change - 50
Car Wash - 50

Grand Total - 74660

HP - 257
Weight - 1355

First lap - 8'41.781
Second lap - 8'31.936

Impressions - This second BR vehicle was mostly used because I own a Jetta in
real life, and while this one is 4WD with a V6 engine, it is still the closest
to resembling my real life ride. It was actually the first car that I ever drove
in this game, but I really didn't care for it at the time, so it got very little
use. With driving aids off and driver ballast added in, I was thinking a second
opinion might be in order. If you take an underpowered car, add in a healthy
dose of understeer, and top it off with a layer of not so fun to drive, let it
simmer for about two laps, and you've got the Bora. The understeer was
predictable, and the lack of power was expected, but it was really just a boring
car to spend nearly 20 minutes on the ring in. Not much else to say about it.

---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/28/2005 4:25:42 PM

Soulidarity, you can get a new S4 (no refresh needed) for 55,500 cr or so. I
just bought one for this BR, and tested it out stock, no driving aids, and was
thrilled.

The RS6 was such a non turning disappointment that I was nervous about the S4.
However, much like the Mazda6, it has a lot of play, or travel, in the
suspension, so it's really easy to whip it around bends. Did I say easy? I meant
fun.

Without question, the new Audi S4 should be a WR someday.

Having said that, it occurs to me that the remaining 20,000 cr or so in my
budget would be well spent "trimming the fat" so the S4 could have a go at Liga
B. That thought brought me to this- would it be ok to have an "extra curricular"
challenge tacked on to the BR?

So many of the eligible cars are Liga A (200hp or so). Might it be interesting
to see who can take 75,000 cr, purchase a Liga A car (according to the BR specs-
VW or Audi, no prizes or HPA) into a Liga B winner? (not the whole cup, just the
'Ring race)

If I'm overstepping my bounds, I apologize, but it seemed a neat twist, given
the structure of this BR.
--
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will
be the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:27


From: Soulidarity | Posted: 9/28/2005 4:29:59 PM

No, I don't mind. I may or may not have time to make a run through the Liga
championship personally, though.

Also, keep in mind that SEAT and Bentley (though I think Bentley only has the
race car, which is outside of the budget) are both VW, and are eligible for the
BR proper, but would not work for the add on.

I actually wanted to run the old S4 specifically. I remember being disappointed
with it in GT3, but had hoped it might be better this time around.


From: fed76 | Posted: 9/28/2005 4:42:27 PM

The BR sounds like a real challenge to me since I really dont like 4WD cars and
thats mostly what the faster Audis and VW's are I think. (although I havebt
realy looked). I do Know that I realy was unimpressed with the A4 audi when I
first tried it.

I'll post the WR in the A.M tommorrow early and hopefully you will all enjoy,
I"ll tell you that I won all the sports tire endurance races with it and it has
a ton of power and decent handling stock. Going bach through the list on the
first page of this topic I realized we're short on amarican cars, so.

THis weekend I'm off work so I have to try the 800 again but this time I'll try
the trany tweaks that OLdguy suggested to maby shave a few more seconds off. The
lag on the uphill sections will hopefully be less. I still havent pulled a
totaly clean lap with it yet, but so far I can only pull totaly clean laps with
a few cars.

Well of to the races I go.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/28/2005 8:00:31 PM

Hmm, an American production car with a ton of power and decent grip. Could it be
a Viper? Callaway? Saleen? Focus? (kidding)

Soulidarity, was the S4 better in GT2, or is it a car you're a fan of in real
life? I remember maxing one out in a previous version of the game and being
impressed. Can't recall if it was GT2 or GT3 though.

If you were to throw the budget out the window, and get the rigidity refresh for
the used one, does it come closer to your expectations?

I may be wrong, but you might be happier with the S4's straightaway speed if you
go back to the stock transmission. The super close gears would explain why you
revved out too soon, and undercut your power.

Peace.

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 9/28/2005 8:43:36 PM

GT2 is the only GT that I've never played, so I can't really answer that part of
your question. I like the S4 in real life, and had actually considered trying to
get my hands on an engine to swap out into my Jetta at some point down the line,
but I don't think it would provide much of an advantage over the VR6 engine, and
would be much more difficult to find.

I'm sure the rigidity would make a noticeable difference, if I have time, I'll
mess around with that and the tranny tomorrow just for kicks. My first priority
is to run the S800 that I spent time rewinning, so I'd have it in stock form.

I'm guessing the Viper for this week's WR, which I'll have one day at best to
mess around with.


From: fed76 | Posted: 9/28/2005 11:47:43 PM

Interesting twist to the BR. Since you cant enter the A3 quatro in the Liga B, I
ran B spec bob through in the SLR macleren to see what time it would take to win
and he crosed the line in 7:30:*** with the second still half way down the long
straight at the end. So add 30-40 seconds I figure, and a 8:00 lap should do it.
So

Audi A3 3.2 quattro 42490 cr.
Sport Suspension 3200
NA tune #2 12500
racing brakes 4700
semi racing susp. 7400
sport exaust 2900
racing chip 1500

total 74790
total HP 337

The first try tuning it up I went with the close tranny and was very disapointed
with top spead only being 120ish. So I lost that and went with stock which gives
much more speed in the straights but not quit enough power to fully use the
newtop end. I did a few laps and the best I could pull was a 8:07:228 which
maybe could win the ring in Liga B. Especialy since I was off at Adenauer-Forst
and basically took the hill instead of the turn.


The only 4wd cars that fit My driving style seem to be the uero Hot hatches like
the A3. So not a bad ride and a pretty good BR for the week. I should be able to
try a different car soon. Maybe the Audi RS4 (its cheaper than the S4 so maybe
more money to spend on power)

So it is morning now so I can tell you all that the WR for the weak is not the
Viper. I may have misled some with my last post because the game doesn’t consider
it a production car as it wouldn’t’ let me into some prod car races. Its the 1962
Buick Special. For a car from ‘62 the top end is awsome and starting at 586 HP it
really neads those big boots in the back. I dont think it will handle well
without driving aids, but back then did they have any anyway?

[vitg]

From: Flibutz | Posted: 9/29/2005 6:27:42 AM

Mr.P - Funny way to hire singers. Made me laugh.

Soulidarity, fed - Nice work with the BR's.

BR:

Last night, I bought an Audi RS4 '01 in Nogano Blue Pearl Effect. I was thinking
about maybe getting a Seat, since everyone seems to like it, but the temptation
of 400hp prevailed. That's a lot of bang for buck.

I had (almost) no idea what this car would be like, so I decided to try it out
stock with oil change, first. I ran a couple of laps with it, with BL of 7'52
which I think is unimpressive for a 400hp car. The handling was not good, mostly
due to the horrible power understeer. A "funny" feature was that while it had
the power understeer, the occasional oversteer was not easily stabilizable with
the throttle. I was thinking: "Oh boy. This is going to be a long night." It was
clear that I needed tunables. Lots of them. I thought about it some more, and
decided to the right thing and go to sleep.

This car is not eligible for Schwarzwald Liga A, but it fits the Liga B nicely.
I tried it there and won the 'Ring race over the M3 though it took two tries.
With only a little over 40,000cr spent, that was pretty cost-efficient.
(Possibly the cheapest car available to win Liga B stock?)

Ok, on to the tuning part.
A good night's sleep works wonders. Now it was clear what the Audi needed. It
needed a VCD controller. Though expensive, I think was worth every cent. This is
what I got:

Audi RS4 '01 - 41,380
Oil Change - 50
Wing - 1,200
Racing Hard Slicks - 10,500 (hey, they weren't forbidden)
Racing Chip - 1,500
Weight Reduction Stage 1 - 1,200
Racing Intercooler - 3,000
VCD Controller - 10,500
Sports Suspension - 3,200
Sports Exhaust - 1,600
Semi-Racing Flywheel - 600

Total - 74,730cr.
Final hp - 454 (settings screen)

Before even trying it out, I made a quick setup to be used as a starting point.
Ride height to minimum, which was 104mm, dampers to 5/5, camber to 2.0 front 1.0
rear. Downforce to 30/30. The VCD default was 45! No wonder it understeered when
accelerating. I set it to 15.

Now it was like a completely different car. The throttle understeer was
practically nonexistent, and it had lots of grip due to the racing tyres.
Actually, I began to appreciate it's handling. The suspension was still soft,
allowing proper weight transfer. It was so good I didn't bother to tune it any
further. That's how I am. When a car becomes driveable, I usually can't get
myself to fine-tune anything. The Audi rewarded me with a neat lap of 7'08.

WR:
An excellent choice, fed! Welcome aboard.

This is yet another WR I hadn't driven before. I'll post the full review later,
but I have some thoughts on it already.

-It seems to require quite a bit of seat-time to get used to it.
-I'm betting it's capable of sub-7'10s, making it insanely fast.
-I like it a lot.
---
Relax. Have a homebrew.

From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/29/2005 12:35:51 PM

The '62 Special IS insanely fast. It also handles pretty well for a barge.

Mind you, this "special" is quite special. It was the winner of a contest a
while back at I think the SEMA show. The best custom car got to be in GT4, and
this is it--so there's very little stock about this ride. (A real '62 Buick
sedan would handle like the QEII and accelerate about as quickly) This car
reminds me a lot of a NEXTEL Cup car--it's big and heavy, but sticks a lot
better than you think it would.
---

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 9/29/2005 3:29:43 PM

Only had time for one lap in the S800, but I have to say that this is one of the
"funnest" low powered cars that I've ever driven. I had driven it before, but it
was lightly modded and had driving aids on. I had much more fun this time
around. Sliding through the Wipperman Esses literally had me grinning from ear
to ear. I felt like there was a ton of time to be gained from my initial 9'36
lap, and could probably get it down around 9'05 with a good lap. My entry speed
and line through Bergwerk were clean, but far from ideal, and playing on the
beach (Plantzgarten) lost me a ton of time.

This is one car that will definitely be getting more ring time from me in the
future, and I see it as an ideal creature to learn to use manual shifting in, as
the lack of power and time between shifts would make it easier to learn, as I
wouldn't be pulling my attention away from driving nearly as much.

Muse - tried your suggestions with the S4. Changed to the stock transmission,
which helped with speed overall. The rigidity refresh (and I added a rollcage as
well) made a drastic change in its handling. At times it understeered a bit too
much, but I definitely enjoyed driving it a lot more after making these changes.

I'll get to the WR on Sunday. It sounds interesting, but I don't have time until
then.


From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/29/2005 3:50:53 PM

I wonder if the GNX was slated for the game before or after said competition.

Who has the best Vegas time in the Special?

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/29/2005 4:07:05 PM

A bone stock S4 will win the Liga B 'Ring race... 156 a spec points. So much for
the BR needing a twist. I'm in love with the car though.

But I echo the sentiment of not having the heart to modify it. Shame there's not
a way to pocket the change.

From: Flibutz | Posted: 9/30/2005 1:51:44 AM

JW - Thanks for the explanation about the Buick. I knew they couldn't have made
it that way in the sixties (6-speed gearbox, woot!) so was wondering what was
the deal with it. Besides, my brother who is a retro-american-car fan is coming
to visit us for the weekend and I really like to be able to give a satisfying
explanation about the car.

Soulidarity - That's exactly why I have untouched version of any car I'm
modifying. I'm into spamming DTCM whenever necessary so money's not an object...
But this makes the modding a lot easier. I'm closing in on 800 cars. Even some
triplicates.
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/30/2005 4:24:46 AM

If a loose and flexible suspension made the Mazda6 and Audi S4 easy to handle,
might it be something to try in the CTR2?

From: fed76 | Posted: 9/30/2005 7:51:45 AM

Thanks for the explanation on the Special. I new it wasn;t stock from the
sixties and that one of you smart ringers would have an explanation. I guess I
jumped the gun on the WR announcing it on Thursday early morning, its because my
first day off is Wednesday so I always think its Friday morning. Any way ‘Im
totally game for any other suggestions.

I did a bunch more laps in the special and cant get into the 7:10s but know
that its possible. With R1;s I bet sub 7;s could be done. I always lose it at
the bottom of the hill I think is called Fuchsrohre then just barely pull it
back for Adenauer-Forst. Its very unforgiving if you even put one tire in the
grass and definitely needs the refresher. The first few laps I did I hadnt
gotten it refreshed and couldnt get under 7:22.

Yesterday I raced with most the cars that were posted on the list on the first
page. I really like the vette racecars and streetcars. I don;t think they were
don justice for GT3, but I’m not sure why. Also I liked the ABT Audio TT
racecar. All the talk about the Mazda 6 makes me want to give it a try so that
and the RS4 BR are on the agenda today as well as some soothing runs in the 800.
That car is a joy on the ring and has really helped me improve my times with all
cars. Before I could never stay on at Brunnchen and always struggled through
Pflanzgarten and Schwalbenschwanz. Now on a good day 80% of the time I can keep
most cars on. The biggest reason for the improvement is because of always using
fast cars and never just relaxing through it. Well times change I guess as I
even am going to take my Focus out of the Driveway and down to Nurburgring, well
when the wife gets home with it anyway.

Like I said to much time on my hands.


From: Flibutz | Posted: 9/30/2005 7:54:20 AM

Muse - Sure, why not? It doesn't hurt to try. At least it'll allow for more
weight transfer. Soften the front end especially. I haven't tried the CTR2, so I
don't really know.

Because the aforementioned brother is arriving any minute now, I won't have any
more time with this WR, as interesting as it is.

So:

WR:
This car sure has a lot of grunt! But that's not all. It corners well, too. The
only problem is the stability under braking from high speeds. If you're not in
in straight line before hammering the brakes, you can kiss your perfect lap
good-bye. Trailbraking is an option in low speeds though. Other than that, it's
pretty neutral. Braking well beforehand and powering through the turn seems to
be the way to go. The first and second gear are useless except for starts. My BL
was 7'09.3, though I did a faster lap, by one second, it was probably due to
unintentional shortcutting and wall-bouncing.

In the Vegas drag strip, I managed a 11.780 with ballast. I bought another one
just for kicks, and modded it. The supercharged, nitrous-equipped one got a
9.114.

And, in my earlier post I was addressing Soulidarity when I meant Wanderingmuse.
Mistakes happen.

Have fun and see ya later!
---
From: viperx2002 | Posted: 9/30/2005 7:59:09 AM

Like I said to much time on my hands.
Sigh and here I am stuck at work till 4...



From: jwrebholz | Posted: 9/30/2005 4:26:50 PM

Fed--no worries, there's no WR Enforcers that'll be knocking down your door and
breaking your thumbs for it.

My impressions of the Buick are much like the rest of you. I've driven the car
before, but never on the 'Ring. (I actually spend most of my time in the Special
at Sears Po--I mean Infineon, where it's a very interesting challenge. The car's
resemblance to a NASCAR stocker comes out strong on that track, and on the 'Ring
too.

A big-block Chevy will provide ample grunt--over 600HP after an oil change--and
easily enough to overwhelm the S2 tires well into third gear. The first thing I
learned when I first picked this car up is that going full throttle in first or
second is not an option if you actually want to make forward progress. On the
flip side, it's nearly impossible to be in the wrong gear thanks to that big
block's ultra-wide powerband. You could start in 3rd without any real penalty.
Once going however the car sticks pretty well, with no really nasty over or
understeering tendencies--except under hard braking. Like a good MR car, you
must be gentle on the brakes, elsewise this car will try to swap ends. This
means braking earlier than you're used to. Top speed on the final straight for
me was over 190 miles per hour--and it was remarkably stable at that speed,
probably due to the car's weight. (I've had many cars on the 'Ring up to the
high 100s, and they were all skittish on the track's uneven pavement). Of course
coming DOWN from that speed isn't easy, as once you crest the hill you need to
get off the gas and start slowing down, otherwise you are going to go off in the
chicanes, or you are going to slide backwards through them at 120 MPH (like I
did) it's a fun ride though--hearing that 454 Chevy wind up is a real treat, and
the car's six-speed transmission really helps that monster motor stretch its
legs. My best time in this car was a shade under 8 minutes, mostly due to a lack
of traction. A set of racing slicks could easily chop 20 seconds or more off
this time.

Also, I took this one to the Vegas strip to see what she'd do in the 1/4 mile.
I've only made two runs thusfar, but my best (again, traction-limited) time is
13 seconds flat. With practice I'm sure I can get it into the 12s--into the 11s
with racing tires.
---

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/30/2005 6:39:00 PM

My original plan for the BR was to pick up a VW, but I failed to find one that
inspired me, so I ended up at the Audi dealership. I noticed that someone had
chosen the S4, so (not noticing that flibutz had already done so) I decided on
the Soccer Mom version...the RS4.

I must say my impression of the car was much better than that of flibutz. A
station wagon with 379 hp right out of the box is, on its own, impressive. Being
a 4WD, I was apprehensive about its handling, but was pleasantly surprised. Yes,
it understeers slightly on entry, and oversteers slightly on exit, but I like it
that way. It's far better than the opposite. I was able to turn a 7'46 with it
stock. I then added:

Racing Chip
Stage 2 Turbo
Racing Intercooler
FC Transmission
Racing Flywheel
Stage 1 Weight Reduction
Wing
Sport Exhaust
Oil Change

Total spent: 74,880 cr.
Horsepower after ups: 496

I first ran it with no downforce, just...um...to feel it slide around, I guess.
It was great fun!! The handling was very predictable, and I thought very fast,
considering it was still on S2's. I ran a 7'25.9 with a couple minor offs.

Then I cranked the downforce to max. You don't get all that much from the
available wing, but it was enough to get me another 10 seconds. My best lap was
a 7'16 flat. I loved the way it handled. The front would slide just a bit (but
comfortably) under hard braking, then it would four-wheel slide though the
center of the turn, and then kick the tail out a hair (just enough to make the
replay look cool) when I hit max cornering speed on exit.

Considering my best time in a M5 (which everyone, including me, raved about) is
7'23, I'd say the RS4 is damn impressive, especially for a Soccer-Mom looking
car!

In conclusion, the 10,000+ I spent on the Racing Tranny was a waste. The stock
transmission is a 6-speed with plenty of top-end. I just have a habit of
throwing in a FC tranny and Racing Flywheel whenever I mod a street car because
the stock versions usually suck. But I had already spent the money before I
realized I probably shouldn't have, so I stuck with it.

If anyone's looking for a fun-driving Station Wagon, give this baby a try!
---

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 9/30/2005 8:10:06 PM

While at the 'ring, I decided to put in my time with the WR, too. I have very
mixed feelings on the '62 Buick.

Unlike most of you, I had never driven it before. I guess I had spent too much
time looking at its tail lights, especially in the Seattle Superbird Mission. I
loved the brute power of the muscle cars when I was in my teens and early 20's.
Fast cars. Hot women. That's what life was all about. But as I've aged, my taste
in both women and cars has "matured". In each, I now prefer a much more refined
and complete package. Fast and hot are still necessities, but there is much more
to be considered.

But I digress. The Buick is obviously an awesome car in its own right. Any car
that can smoke the tires at 100 mph has got MY attention, any day of the week!
And the handling is acceptable, but rather temperamental. I'd say kinda like a
woman during "those days". As long as you don't do anything to blatantly piss
her off, you can live with her. But if you slip up and forget to treat her with
"due respect", you're better off hiding in the garage for a while.

I am, of course, referring to the Buick's tendency to get it's panties in a
bunch if you have too heavy of a foot during high-speed braking. It took me
until the forth lap to finally brake early and gently enough for the left just
before Adenaur Forst, and at the end of Dottinger Hoho. It also seemed that the
shock rebound was very slow. When you run a wheel over a curb it seems to take a
couple seconds for it to settle back down and give you grip again. The same
going over normal bumps in the road at high speed. It was a bit unsettling. It
reminded me of the Merc SLR in Mission 34, only with the undesirable traits
magnified quite a bit.

Overall, I'd say it was an interesting experience. The overwhelming horsepower
was an experience. But several of the muscle cars handle much better (the Cougar
for instance). My final (and first clean) lap was a 7'12.4, which I have to
admit is pretty impressive.

I'm glad I now have it in my garage, but I think that's a good place to keep it.
Maybe I'll use it to hide in...when necessary...
---

From: fed76 | Posted: 9/30/2005 9:33:23 PM

Old Guy, I also have found that the tranny is a waste in the Audis as it also is
in the focus. This is the first thread that I have ever contributed to and I
dont think I could have picked a better one. GT3 and 4 have been games that I
must finish always not to mention 1 and 2. The Buick didnt catch my attention
until the end of my first play through but once I had it and had driven it a few
times I knew it was like the RX7 but with power. Would I have known that it had
a big block Chevy, I would have driven it much, much more. I mean hey, I;ve
driven big block Chevys and Oldsmobiles and Chryslers in real life. But you
dont appreciate it until you can really compare it to a rotary or little bitty
V6 on a wicked track like the ring. But who am I to judge.

I said Id try a bunch of cars today and I did, but not as much as I would have
liked thanks to the Wife. (Ive been dying to blame her for something). I heard
that Old guy beats everyone with there times, and have to agree. But my Buick
best Run was a 7:14:447 with the same mistakes. Only 2 seconds less but two
seconds that Id be hard pressed to find I cant seem to bring myself to slow
down in time for the Dot ho. I did throw R1s on and ran a 7:00,790 which is
better than I had ever thought shaving 14 second off but still lost it in the
same spots.

I tried the mazda 6 for a couple of laps stock but wasnt sure if you;re all
running the concept or the one at the dealer. Not bad anyway. It can throw the
ass out pretty decent for a FF car.

Well hopefully more GT time tommorrow. Today after the morning of ringing it I
decided I needed money so I did the German touring car whatever like 5 times
with the CLK touring car and B speced everything except the Ring. What a tough
weekend it is becoming.

From: Amarynceus | Posted: 9/30/2005 10:37:46 PM

whoof... I've been away from this thread for a bit. Anyway, though I'd update
the list of partly as a reference but mainly to see what I've
missed.


Lancia Stratos '73
Aston Martin DB9 '03
BMW M5 '05
Holden Manaro CV8 '04
BMW Z4 '03
Chevrolet Corvette Stingray L46 350 (C3) '69
Renault Clio Sport V6
Ford F150 Lightning
Jaguar S-Type R '02
RUF BTR '86
NISMO Fairlady Z S-tune concept '02
Lotus Esprit Turbo HC '87
Chrysler 300C '05
Seat Ibiza Cupra '04
Jaguar E-Type Coupe '61
Audi TT 3.2 '03
Hommel Berlinette R/S '99
Ford GT '05
Mazda 110S (L10B) '68
Audi Quattro '82
Cadillac Cien '02
Nissan 350Z Gran Turismo 4 Limited Edition (Z33) '05
AC 427 S/C '66
Spyker C8 Laviolette '01
Caterham Seven Fire Blade '02
Nissan Skyline GT-R (R32) '89
Mazda6 5-door '03
Buick Special '62

RE Amemiya AMEMIYA ASPARADRINK RX7 (JGTC) '04
BMW 320i Touring Car '03
Chevrolet Corvette C5R (C5) '00
Audi Abt TT-R Touring Car '02
Chapparal 2J Racecar '70
Toyota SUPERAUTOBACS APEX MR-S '00
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C2) Race Car '63
Ford GT40 Race Car '69
Lancia Delta S4 Rally Car '85
Honda S800 RSC Race Car '68

Hopefully this weekend I can catch up a bit...

---
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds:
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.


From: Amarynceus | Posted: 9/30/2005 10:38:28 PM

*thought

fie upon the typos... fie I say...

---


From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 9/30/2005 11:33:52 PM

I realize there's WR on, and a nice one, the Buick is fun. I certainly enjoyed
the BR, Audi makes some of the best AWD's we have to choose from. Despite all
that, I can't rid myself of the RUF CTR2.

I sold the one I'd been tuning and bought a fresh green one. The first change I
made (besides setting all driving aids to zero) was downgrading the tires to
S2's from the stock S3's. It's not a car that needs much grip, and the S2's are
more suitable to a car that needs to slide in order to turn.

The second change I made was an FC transmission. Really, this is not necessary,
but I noticed not needing 6th gear save for the very end of D-H, which can be a
sign there's room for tuning.

The third change I made was to me. This isn't a car that needs to have it's
handling adjusted by adding or tweaking parts. It just feels that way on TV.

Tapping the brakes will give you the oversteer, easing onto the gas will track
it around.

Smashing the gas, however, will push you off the track everytime.

I can't believe I'm about to say this.

*looks sheepishly away*

I like driving the CTR2.

It steers. Only, it steers with the brake and gas pedals as much or more than
the steering input.

That's not to say I've reached the car's potential, or that I could pass a
license test in it. Only, it's fun now, with less tire grip. I've turned a 7'43,
with many mistakes but none fatal.

The problem is, in theory (by weight and horse power) this should be a sub 7'20
car.

I had to get that off my chest. Y'all have a blessed weekend.

Peace.

From: Nito_Musashi | Posted: 10/1/2005 10:25:40 AM

Now granted i never have drove a RUF in real life, or a Porsche for that matter.
But if i went to a dealer and managed to get a test drive in the ctr2, if it
handles like it does in this game, i never would go in a RUF or porche dealer
again.

Two huge problems, the car has i dunno like positive downforce, it just wants to
skate off the road even on gentle curving straights this car just wants to slide
right off the road. This car screams for a gt auto wing period.

You cant buy a vcd for this car? a 4wd car that you cant buy a vcd
for....shifting some power to the front wheels would make this car handle 200%
better i would think.

I spent a whole weekend tuning this car, got to b spec boy could actually keep
the car on the road but for one section and post 6'30 times on level 3, 4 forget
it, 5 your just nuts. But all the setups i compared it to, even the stock, it
was by far the best id seen.

Trying to drive it tho, while i think its alot more stable than the base setup,
that would spin if you looked at the car funny. This car is just a nightmare,
you have to brake way early, over steer and hope you dont spin out. Once in
awhile you can just do an all out drift in the car (with r5s on even) and maybe
hold the road, i myself am not a big drift fan, so perhaps its a car for a
drifter.

My pure best is 7'11.974 and probabvly only killed myself once but had a mostly
clean run till trying to brake after the big str8 and lost the car. I dont have
the trust in the car to throw it around, to even get near b spec boys time, i
was tip toeing around. i see b spec taking turns alot faster than i am taking
them for fear i am going to end up in the armco.

Just seems ridicilous how bad this car is especially for it being a 4wd and it
seems way more tail happy than the yellowbird or other rufs that are rear wheel
drive. I would rather bust out that VW 4wd golf, that is a blast to drive 4wd
car. And can post the same times or near it what was hitting in this 944hp car,
suppose if i spent a few days just getting to trust the car, it would go alot
better.

[vitg]

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/1/2005 3:38:50 PM

***DANGER! RANT WARNING!***

<rant>

I've come to the conclusion that Polyphony wrecked the CTR2 (and all Rufs to a
lesser degree), either by gross stupidity or hatred of the car(s). I ran it in a
Family Cup, and it ate its front tires WAY faster than the rears- a distinct
hallmark of a front-heavy car. That would explain the complete lack of
lift-throttle oversteer, and the 4WD completes the unsteering picture.

Why is a rear-engine car (albeit a AWD one) front heavy? WHY?!? The CTR2 should
behave closely to the other RR Rufs when you let off the throttle, but it
behaves more like a Civic- PUSH PUSH PUSH!

All the Ruf cars are questionably simulated to begin with (Onikaze may disagree
with me, and that's fine). Sure, they'll lift-throttle oversteer like there's no
tomorrow, but the front end likes to slide as much as the back- resulting in a
big, showy drift that goes in a straight line into the armco. The RGT is the
worst offender, but they all have that tendency. Under acceleration I can
understand this, as there's hardly any weight on the front tires, but while
coasting or braking? Umm, no...

My main argument against PD's Ruf simulation is the fact that any other car of
approximately the same power/weight will slaughter a Ruf in lap times. Try a BTR
out, then take a Tuscan for a spin. Yep, the TVR is faster. Try a Yellowbird and
a Shelby Cobra (with a FC transmission, just to be fair). Ouch! How about a CTR2
and a Ford GT? Same old, same old.

</rant>

The preceding outburst is the result of me, once again, trying to enjoy the
CTR2 and getting kicked in the nuts. I really, really want to like it (I finally
wrapped my brain around the B/CTRs, so I want to complete my vintage Ruf
happiness), but I just can't in it's stock form. It pushes worse in every
conceivable circumstance than any Audi RS6 could ever even dream of.

However, it's muleish tendencies are easy enough to overcome. 120 kg of ballast
at full rear and Lightweight 1 (to counteract all that ballast) take care of
most of the CTR2's problems nicely.

Now it handles like a rear-heavy car under braking and while letting off the gas
(though not as much so as the B/CTRs), and will actually turn under acceleration
with a light gas-foot. It still has the old 4WD stiffness under power, and the
Ruf's habit of sliding around (not in a good way, either), but those are both
manageable traits.

I haven't put a good, clean lap in (either stock or "corrected" stock), so I
don't have a time to compare, but I'd bet that 7'10 on S3s is more than
reasonable- close to a Ford GT time.

---
From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 10/1/2005 3:49:19 PM

Dang it! Now you guys got my curiosity up and I will have to go buy a CTR2. If
it's a car that B-spec Bob can drive faster than a real driver, it must be a
stubborn beast!! I'll give it a try this evening.
---

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/1/2005 3:54:32 PM

Oldguy- I don't think there's a car in the game that Bobo can drive faster than
me. Cleaner, yes. Faster, no. Those wonderful AI braking zones and exit lines
sorta kill any chance Bobo has to be fast.

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 10/1/2005 4:00:16 PM

I was thinking same about me, but Nito was having trouble beating Bob. I'll have
to check it out later.

Anyway, the CRT2 sounds like it will be either very fun or very frustrating.
I'll have to see which it is.
---
The best laid plans of mice and men, often go astray.


From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/1/2005 4:03:43 PM

I'm sorry, sorry, sorry about your package Mr Pinstripes. I don't get it. Maybe
our expectations are different?

I'm loving my CTR2, and found that using brakes to get the rear end going around
works fine, no need for ballast and such. Now, I've found myself tapping the
brakes in places I never would have previously imagined (like the slight bend at
the bottom of the hill before the sweeping lefthander leading into A-F: a light
tap sets the whole thing up beautifully).

However, as I've learned to drive it that way, my speeds have picked up, and I
know that truly good lap times will follow.

Did you try it on the S2's?

I don't think the RGT accusations are fair. That car flies. I'm a Tuscan fan,
it's my long standing favorite GT car (GT2, GT3, and GT4), but I'd wager on the
RGT against it.

I too would've hoped the CTR2 could eventually catch the Ford GT, but I don't
see how. My current best lap in the GT is 7'15, and in the CTR2 is 7'35 (both on
S2's).

I think I could get the CTR2 down to 7'25, but that's it. Here's the thing- my
ability to enjoy the CTR2 began when I drove it for what it is, instead of what
I wanted it to be. That, and 7'25 would be third on my rankings behind the Ford
GT and the Cien, which is fine by me.
--
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will
be the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:27

From: Nito_Musashi | Posted: 10/1/2005 4:09:27 PM

i agree that for a top of the line sports car, and from old crt gt2 or 3 users
that this car was sporked royally in this gt. Looking for setups to try out
players were frustrated and shocked to see how bad the car is in this gt, saying
it used to own on the older gts.

i never tried ballast in any of my setups, toe angles, camber, suspension, a ton
of traction control on this car to cure its drift, asm set to 0, and playing
alot w the limited slip diff (and i have no clue about settings for that
thing)but tweaking it does lest seem to make a difference.

plus i am a total mechanical noob w only a very basic idea of what works and
what doesn't. so my tuning method was change something see what happens take it
out for a drive if i like it keep it. if it made it better do more of it. did
that for 2 days and a ton of oil changes and a ridgity refresher later. lest the
car was more controllable than stock. picked it up again today since i read this
thread and trying out a few more changes see if i can make it better.

have at it oldguy good luck! if any interest ask and ill post the setup i
have been using for you to try out.


From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/1/2005 4:28:10 PM

Muse- Yeah, I suspect you're right on the expectation front. I earned my RR
wings in the BTR, which seems to be the most agile of the three. The Yellowbird
has too much power for its own good, and the RGT is sort of limp compared to the
other two (at least to me).

I don't know about the RGT/Tuscan fight, though. My Tuscan outran my M5 by a few
seconds. I know the Tuscan would be faster with me behind the wheel, but that's
because I can't drive the RGT worth a crap. I do have a blisteringly fast BTR
time I can compare it to, though (7'24 on S3s, with oil, no driver ballast).

I think the different controllers account for a lot of our difference in opinion
on the CTR2. There are a lot of cars that are great (or at least driveable) with
one and blow with the other. The CTR2 is a lot less reluctant to turn with the
DS2.


From: jwrebholz | Posted: 10/1/2005 4:40:36 PM

Nito: That's the way a lot of people tune, and the way you should tune (unless
you really, REALLY know what you're doing) Change one thing at a time, test, if
it works keep it, if not change it back and change something else. That's
usually how I tune. I'll tweak the gearing, see if that helps, then tweak the
suspension. Usually semi-broad strokes at first, then getting narrower as I hit
the sweet spot. If you change more than one thing and foul up, you'll have no
way of knowing what change caused the problem.

fed: My WR was the '03 Mazda6 5-door, the one at the dealer not the concept.
(Although if you want a REALLY fun ride, go win the Mazdaspeed 6 from the
Clubman Cup. One of the few AWD cars that doesn't push)
---

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 10/1/2005 8:09:40 PM

Because of inextinguishable curiosity, I went and bought a CTR2. I thought the
dark blue was an exceptionally nice color.

After putting well over a hundred miles on the car, I've come to the conclusion
that PD mistakenly entered this car into the binary cyber-world, know to us as
GT4, as a FF. It just FEELS like a FWD car. I mean, with the TCM turned off, it
smokes its tires up to 100 mph! It would take much more than 512 hp to do that
on any 4WD car, no matter HOW light it is.

But enough "ranting". It is what it is. That said, it was an interesting drive.
I drove it showroom stock, with the S3's it came on. After about 4 laps, I found
myself instinctively doing the brake tap thing. I never pay a whole lot of
attention to what my feet are doing. I am often surprised when running replays,
watching the little blue and red bars going up and down, and what I
unconsciously do with my feet to get a car to behave the way I want. After I
become familiar with a car, cornering is never just brakes or just throttle, but
a combination of both. This time, after reading what Muse wrote about the
brake-tap to set up for a turn, I paid a little closer attention to what I was
doing.

I managed to wrestle it to a 7'21. Then, just for the fun of it, I stuck some
S2's on the back (leaving the S3's on the front). It actually had a much better
feel to it. The "straight" between Bergwerk and Mutkurve was much easier to take
flat-out. But unfortunately, the better feel didn't translate to better times.
Although nearly as fast. I ran a 7'25 like that with a couple minor offs. Maybe
if I'd put in a clean lap I would have equaled my previous 7'21.

But enough is enough. I let Smilin' Bob take his turn (back on S3's all the way
around), and he found the car to be quite incomprehensible. Either that, or
someone told him it's fastest to drive on the green parts. He had a very hard
time keeping the car on the track, and turned in an 8'04. I think he's been
taking too much Enzyte.

All in all, the RUF CTR2 is no Porche 911. I don't know if that's RUF's fault,
or PD's. But that's the way it is.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/2/2005 6:45:38 AM

The problem I have with the Buick Special is its look. Not that I think it's
ugly- the car is gorgeous.

But it looks like it belongs on a drag strip, not a racetrack. It's bizarre to
see a car which looks like it shouldn't be able to turn tearing up the track.

What's a beautiful surprise is driving it, and discovering the ease and blazing
speed with which it performs. It's tricky to control the wheelspin, but that
much power means it accelerates strong at half throttle, so it evens out.

The insansly low lap times I've seen for the Special are very impressive to me,
because I've babied mine around the track in the 7'40's, not wanting to push it.
Perhaps I'm missing out on what it can really do, but in my mind's eye I keep
seeing that car that should be handling like the old GTO and instead is much,
much sweeter.

Excellent WR pick, Fed.

MrPinstripes, I know full well it wouldn't be me who beat you in a Tuscan with
an RGT, but I'd sure like to see those two race. I think the RGT's lower torque
is a good thing- a key to how much easier it is to control, much like the M5 has
less torque than power.

That said, I know your confidence in the Tuscan is solid and well founded. I put
over a thousand miles on my Tuscan in GT3. Stock, it flies. Tuned, it flies.
From the standpoint of how many races it can win, both stock and tuned, I'd say
the TVR Tuscan Speed 6 is one of the most valuable cars in the game.


From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/2/2005 9:54:18 AM

I finally worked up the guts to modify my Audi S3 for the BR. I stayed the ****
away from the suspension, though, since any mucking about with that could ruin
the car's amazing handling. It just feels like a BMW in that regard.

However, try as I might, I couldn't qualify for Schwarzwald Liga B. I think the
car needs to start with 3-400 horsepower to qualify.

I bumped the power up to 310ish, tweaked the drivetrain (including a FC tranny),
and snagged some BBS #20 wheels. They seem to look great on green cars for some
reason.

A D10 Family Cup race put me up against a whole bunch of nothing and a GT-R
Concept. Don'tcha just love it when they throw in a race-ready concept car for
you to struggle against in your street rod? The S3 handled the extra oomph well,
and the tranny settings I dialed in kept the power up through the whole track.

The GT-R started at the back of the pack, so the first lap was leisurely. I was
up by a bunch by Bergwerk. Come the Dottinger-Hohe, though, the GT-R's power
advantage showed itself, and he breezed past the C4 'Vette and the DB9 that had
been in his way.

The last lap was uneventful, but the GT-R was breathing down my neck by
Pflanzgarten I, and I had to block the entire way down the D-H straight. He
tried to muscle me off the track at Tiergarten, but he'd forgotten that my car
weighed more than his, so I won that fight. I crossed the line at 7'57, to the
tune of 18x A-Spec points.

Then I hit Reset, so I wouldn't have to buy another S3.
---

I have a proposition for a BR-esque competition, but I thought I should get some
feedback first, since the Diary is a very non-competition type of place.

I don't want to give away too much (it'll ruin Christmas and such), but you'd be
competing more against yourself than everyone else- similar to the "Beat the M5"
BR we did a while back, but totally different in execution.

There would be a competition to see who does the best, but your actual lap time
would have nothing to do with winning.

If everyone seems interested (or at least not opposed), I'll let fly.

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 10/2/2005 10:15:51 AM

Sounds good. Anything "different" is cool. Go for it.

[vitg]

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 10/2/2005 11:37:16 AM

I say cut loose, pin. If there's enough ideas flowing in to keep a fourth
"rider" event going, I don't think anyone is going to have any objections.

---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/2/2005 11:49:10 AM

Count me curious as well, MrPinstripes.

---

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/2/2005 12:25:24 PM

This will just take the place of one BR, not be a whole new activity. I think
three "sanctioned" events is more than enough.

Sounds like a positive so far. Unless some major objections come down the pipe,
I'll post the rules on Monday morning EST.
---
From: Soulidarity | Posted: 10/2/2005 1:43:51 PM

I got to run a lap in the Special, unfortunately, it looks like that's all I
have time for at the moment. Up through Bergwerk, my times were only 2 or 3
seconds shy of my lap times in the Super Impreza Touring car when I ran the 24
hour endurance. I was running under 7'10 laps with racing tires in that car, and
the Special was nearly as fast on S2s (I think that's what tires it comes on).
After Bergwerk I made some errors that cost me big. I showed some mut, and the
kurve showed me some angst in return, tossing me into the armco. I went into the
sand just before D-H, and I went too fast into Tiergarten. After it was all
done, I had managed a 7'31 lap. I think 7'10 would be within my grasp with a
clean lap.

My impressions of this car pretty much mirror everyone else's. Its a fun car to
drive, It grips the road incredibly well, and it has more power than it knows
what to do with. The wheelspin is manageable, imo, as I think I only burned
rubber bad near the very beginning of the lap. Once I had a feel for it, it
wasn't a problem anymore.

---
From: jwrebholz | Posted: 10/2/2005 4:32:18 PM

Like I said, you can start the Special in third without a major speed
penalty--just watch out when you come into the powerband at around, oh, 2500
RPM. The power in this car doesn't peak so much as plateau.

The BR idea sounds great. Count me in.

Oh, and btw Fed--now that you've chosen the WR, it is your obligation to choose
the next person to pick. You don't have to do it right away, but try to choose
someone in the next day or two (so that person has time to find a car)

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 10/3/2005 4:53:02 AM

More catching up:
I was interested in the discussion about “clearing the head” and the range of
Time’s we enjoy driving within.
In this I am with Mr. Pinstripes & Oldguy, you really nailed it with the Gamers Nirvana.

When I am driving at high speed ,on a killer road with a vast array of Über
missiles to chose from, I DO NOT THINK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE. All I am thinking
about are the cars controls and the next four or five corners. This is more than
enough to clear my head, but, within the game watching a replay of a few laps of
the Ring in an E – Type Jag is, I think very soothing.
Also calming was the Mazda6 , compliant suspension and strong brakes led to
clean lap after clean lap starting at 9' 10.162 down to 8' 56.745 so far, ( I
really must learn not to overbrake) very enjoyable! As I recall I drove the
Mazda after having a go with the Lancia Delta S4, what a contrast! Placid,
stable relaxing Mazda versus highly strung ,wickedly fast Rally car. This car
was a challenge and concentrated the mind wonderfully, I am very pleased with my
progress so far as I started with 7' 22.604 with the car run standard and have
whittled that down to 7' 01.881 with some tweaking done. If I can find the
settings I used and put them up for other S4 fans to look at, maybe I could get
some idea if I was heading the right way?
Cheers,
I will post this and then maybe login again later as I am in babbling mode


From: Flibutz | Posted: 10/3/2005 9:22:56 AM

Viper - Congrats on the purchase!

BR: Nice idea, Mr.P. Sounds very challenging. I've chosen my car, originally I
was planning to use it for a second entry in one of the earlier BR's but didn't
have the time.

I've already spent a lot of time today upgrading my OBBTC car so this might have
to wait a little. But I'm definitely going to do this.

I'll post my target time as soon as I know how much hp the upgrading gets me.
Some cars don't react too well to upgrades, but this one probably will.

---

From: Flibutz | Posted: 10/3/2005 10:50:32 AM

I got to thinking: "Do I actually have anything else to do today? Not really."
And decided to give that BR a go tonight. I upgraded the car, and was
disappointed with its power output. I'm aiming for 6'35 which might still be a
bit optimistic. Or maybe not. I have no idea because in any case, it's going to
be the fastest non-racecar I've driven on the 'Ring.

Results will follow later.
---

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 10/3/2005 11:37:45 AM

My only question on the BR is this:

Are we supposed to be aiming for the lowest time we can possibly get, and pick
our car around that, or are we deciding on a car, and trying to predict what
time we can turn with our chosen beast? I guess the line between the two is kind
of blurry, but I think its an important distinction to make.

---

From: viperx2002 | Posted: 10/3/2005 11:50:19 AM

My take on it is that you pick a car and then decide how fast you can make it.
---

From: Flibutz | Posted: 10/3/2005 12:56:37 PM

Corvette Grand Sport experiment. No rigidity refresh = frustration. got a 6'45,
if I did a hundred or so laps with it I might get a clean lap, possibly 6'40 or
something. Should have known better than to tune a used car this much. I'm
thinking about trying out a Mustang GT '05 tomorrow, using the same upgrades,
though I'll have to leave something worth 3,000cr. out. I'll aim for a more
realistic 7'40 this time. I might write something about the Corvette too, but as
of now I hate it too much. Hm. I might not be in the best mood to post right
now. Later.
---

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/3/2005 1:40:21 PM

I was a bit rushed typing up the intro for the BR (stupid work), so it wasn't as
clear as I'd have liked it to be. Here is a better breakdown of how it should
work.

"One foot [in your mouth], and one on the gas! (Mk II)"

Step 1: Put your foot in your mouth! Predict just how fast you think you can
tear around the 'Ring with 100,000 Cr. Make the most ridiculous boast you think
you might actually be able to pull off. Don't check a car's power first, don't
test run cars first; just open your yap, then deal with the consequences.

Step 2: Purchase and tuning. Snag a new car (classics are fine, but no used
ones), then tune it into a monster. No nitrous allowed, but all other upgrades
(including racing tires) are fine.

Step 3: Put the hammer down! Self-explanatory. If your first car doesn't make
it, feel free to try another (as time allows, of course).

Whoever comes closest to their target time (either under or over) is the winner.
They win nothing.

My focus for this BR is threefold

1- A way to push our own limits.
2- A way to expand our car/tuning knowledge.
3- A way to have a competition that's totally independent of driver skill.

---

I hope that clears some of the confusion up.

For my BR, I set my target time at a blistering 6'20. After I get this typed
out, I'm heading out to find a car that'll run that fast. I don't know if I can.

Later.

---
From: jwrebholz | Posted: 10/3/2005 1:50:20 PM

I can get to 7 minutes flat for 100 grand. (Might seem conservative--remember, I
run about 30 seconds slower than most of you in most every car)
---

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 10/3/2005 2:07:02 PM

I'm aiming for 6'50, and that may be beyond my grasp, but we'll see what I can
turn out.

---

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 10/3/2005 3:22:30 PM

I think I'll go for a 6'45. Now, to decide whether to go with something
expensive that is fast out of the box, or something cheaper that will leave a
lot more money for mods. Hmmm...


From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/3/2005 3:48:11 PM

Seven minutes flat.

---
From: jwrebholz | Posted: 10/3/2005 4:50:42 PM
I'm starting to think I should've added another 30 seconds to my time. I've
tried three different cars so far, and none have gotten me anywhere close. First
I tried a Vette Z06, betting on cheap American horsepower. After I set an 8:01
best time, stock, I knew already that nothing I could do with the remaining
46,000 credits would shave a full minute off my time.
Next was the Evo MR, another exercise in futility. Sure it was quick, but with a
time similar to the 'Vette, not nearly quick enough. I needed a car that could
get into the mid-7:00s STOCK as cheaply as possible.
A lot of searching and comparing led me finally to the NSX. It was the
best-handling car I could find that still had power and was under the price
cieling--but only just. With no room to modify and a base time that was STILL
over 8 minutes, I decided to throw in the towel. While it's possible any of the
cars I selected could get to 7 minutes in the hands of a capable driver, I am
far from a capable driver. I just set the bar too high.
---

From: scotti english | Posted: 10/3/2005 5:43:30 PM

Still going? if i didnt think my hat made me look homosexual, i'd wear it, then
take it off to you.
---
"the only way a video game could influence real life is if you are a moron in
the first place." - Dbills247


From: Soulidarity | Posted: 10/3/2005 7:00:34 PM

2 cars and a massive failure for me. I first tried the TVR Tamora. Its
lightweight and reasonable horsepower led me to believe that it was possible to
put down some good times. Its cost didn't leave a lot for modification, however.
I used an NA tune 2, lightweight 1, R1 tires, racing chip, semi racing exhaust,
and racing brakes, which put me around 98k (I may have forgotten a mod if that
total comes out lower). Of course, I added in driver ballast and removed aids.

Mistake # 1: No six speed transmission. I hit the rev limiter in four or five
spots on the track at around 157 mph.

Mistake # 2: My own inability to control this car. Its a fun ride, but I'm
simply not skilled enough to take this badboy out and get it under control in a
few laps. This cars tendency to pull itself off the track hard if you let a tire
touch the grass was driving me nuts.

My 7'36 best lap was so far off of my target time that it wasn't even funny. In
the hands of a capable driver with a 6 speed tranny, 6'50 could be obtainable.

After scrutinizing car after car in the Euro market, I really didn't have much
more time to look. I skipped over the large American and Japanese markets, as I
simply didn't have time to look through them all. I settled on the FPV GT,
simply because of the high power for low cost, even if it was a heavy mammoth.
Lightweight 1 and 2, R2s, FC tranny, Sports clutch, Racing Flywheel,
Supercharger, Racing Exhaust, Racing Brakes, Racing Chip, which brought me in
around 99k.

This car simply isn't fast enough. Despite its nearly 600 hp, I really don't
think anyone could put down a sub 7 in it within this budget. It handled well,
but had a lot of wheelspin in low gears, which caused me some minor problems. I
never hit the rev limiter, but I did redline down the d-h at over 180 mph. My
best time was a 7'33, and I think I could take that down into the low 7'20s with
a clean lap.

Like usual, I'm out of time for now. If I have time later in the week, I'll pick
out another car or two.

[vitg]

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 10/3/2005 7:07:07 PM

Foot-in-mouth BR:

This has been very educational for me. I DID hit my projected 6'45, but only by
cheating! I'll explain:

For last weeks BR I put together an Audi RS 4 for 75,000 cr. that would do a
7'16. So, thinks me, subtract the money for the Stage 2 turbo and the FC tranny
that I deemed unnecessary, then add a stage 3 turbo, some racing slicks, and
that should put me well under 7 minutes! I was going to say 6'50, but
Soulidarity chose that number so I got my mouth ready to chew some foot, and
said 6'45!

BUT, the stage 3 turbo didn't add much more hp than the stage 2, and DID cost a
bundle more money. I was only able to afford R1's, and couldn't do the weight
reduction, or add the Racing Chip as I did before. The result was a slightly
more powerful, 200kg heavier car, on only slightly stickier tires. I clocked in
at an embarrassing 7'14...only two seconds quicker than my 75,000 cr. car.

So, I got pissed and went back to that other RS4 (from last weeks BR), threw
some R5's on it (which put me about 20,000 cr. over-budget because they cost
47,500), and drove with a head full of road rage, and just happened to clock in
at 6'45.8 (which actually rounds to 6'46, but hey...I cheated anyway, so what
the heck).

I then tried it with some R3's which actually DID fit in the 100,000 budget,
because they only cost 22,500. The one lap I ran was a 6'55, which I will call
my fastest LEGAL time so far. I could probably pick up another 3 or 4 seconds,
but not 10.

In conclusion, I learned, once again, that horsepower isn't everything. The
weight reduction and racing drive train was worth more (for the money) than the
upgraded turbo and stickier tires.

Foot-in-mouth claim: 6'45
Actual legal time: 6'55

But I'm not through yet! We've got all week!! I'll probably spend at least
500,000 cr. on this 100,000 BR!!!
---

From: fed76 | Posted: 10/3/2005 7:34:11 PM

Wow, did I miss some posts thanks to a trip to the city.
Anyway, Mr. pinstripes nailed it, the Ruffs are junk compaired to in the other
GT’s. The other day when I was going back and trying all the old RR’s and BR’s I
tried the BTR 86 thinking it should be a good run. Nope, about 5 turns in and
about the same number of 360 spins, I was done. But since everyone else tried
again my curiousity is peaked and I may have to try a few of the Ruffs. It wont
take to many spins though for me to give up.
Great idea for a BR Mr. Pins, If I get some good ring time in I’ll challenge
myself with A 6:37, I would go 6:30 but I’m second guessing myself already and 7
seconds seems like what I’ll be trying to CLEAN from a decent lap.

To the WR, I’ll pass the torch to viperinthegrass since it sound like he’s happy
to be back online.

Hopefully I’ll get some time in on my 6;37 and by the end of the weak maybe I
wont have to eat my shoe.

Peace out.


From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 10/3/2005 8:00:32 PM

More catching up
RR™
’68 Honda S800 Racecar

There are two ways to go about driving this car :

Either –

Approach car with a steely determination to tune and tweak it to within an inch
of its life, then bludgeon the Ring into submission with fierce concentration
and superior driving skills

OR

Wheeeee! Yahoo! Yippeeeeeeee!

I chose the latter option, the fun factor increased by trying the “How far can
you go before backing off” test. I do not think I have broken 9 minutes yet but
that is not the point, it is just pure fun. I reckon better drivers than me
could try throwing the car sideways well before the corners and using the drift
to scrub off some speed then countersteering around – no braking, no backing off
!

As for a time for the new "Foot in Mouth BR™", the fastest I have ever been
around the Ring is 6’ 07 . 446 so I am going to add a minute and aim for 7’ 07’
445

More Later

From: viperx2002 | Posted: 10/3/2005 8:06:21 PM

I know I can get 6:30... but am I willing to stick my foot that far in my mouth?

Aw what the heck. I know I can get a 6:30. Thats my claim.
---

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 10/3/2005 10:36:33 PM

I did it! Beat my target time by almost 10 seconds with a couple of offs. I
could (and will) improve it by at least 3 seconds. Got a 6'36.370 with 410 cr.
left in the piggy bank.

I give the details later in the week. I know many of you could do as well or
better with this car and ups. I'll see if you make the same discovery.

The 100,000 cr. limit is what makes it tough. There's no way to get sub-7's on
S2's. But R's cost a lot of money. So you need a relatively cheap car with a lot
of stock hp and a stock tranny that will take you to high speeds so you don't
have to waste money on the FC upgrade.

Currently getting some really nasty weather here in Duluth. Summer's last
hurrah. Thunder, lightning, very heavy rain, flash flood warnings and all that.
I know that doesn't seem like anything serious to those of you on the gulf
coast, but Lake Superior usually keeps that stuff away from us. It somehow has a
neutralizing affect on the weather. We've got a narrow band of nasty stuff
running lengthways over us. "Freight-training" they call it.

One of my cats is scared and keeps crying. The other one is sleeping...not
worried in the least. LOL Anyways, I'm on high ground. Peace, out!
---
From: Amarynceus | Posted: 10/4/2005 2:42:06 AM

Nice BR idea!

Well, I'll jam my antipodal appendage firmly in my mouth and say I can manage a
6'35". I haven't been spending much time on the 'Ring, so I doubt I can make it,
but we'll see.


From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/4/2005 3:33:49 AM

Foot in Mouth

I've really got that thing crammed in there this time. I grabbed the sneakiest,
"Cheatyface"-est car available in the game; the HPA R32 Golf. 32k for 550
horsepower? Yes, please and thank you!

The HPA and the Buick Special are both so blatantly underpriced I consider them
cheating in any "budget" situation, but I did say 6'20. I figured the Special in
when I set my target time, but I'd forgotten about the HPA. Since I hadn't
driven it before, I gave it a shot.

The best I've managed so far is 6'37, but I'm still tinkering with mods. The
powerband is almost as ridiculous as the Escudo's- nothing from idle to 4000
RPM, a whole buttload of power and torque from 4-5000, then back to nothing
again. Tuning the tranny was quite an excercise.

I'll post more results when I get the chance (probably Wednesday).

---

Fed- I really like the Ruf BTR- it's a great car once you learn how to drive it.
I just feel very strongly that Polyphony gave them the shaft.

From: Amarynceus | Posted: 10/4/2005 4:24:28 AM

Ha! I knew I wouldn't be the only one tempted by the HPA! I resisted though, and
with the first car I tried, achieved my target.

Well, close enough for now. I ran a 6'35.849" and I was up by nearly 2" on that
when I went a bit too deep into Pflanzgarten and was rewarded by a trip in the
kitty litter. I'll run it again tomorrow and actually come in under my "FIM"
time.

My car: Ye newe Ford Mustang GT '05 (25,950)
Modification---------Price
Racing Softs--------35,000
3-plate clutch--------4,700
Sports Flywheel-------450
Supercharger------13,500
FC Tranny-----------10,400
Racing Exhaust-----4,800
Racing Chip----------1,500
Weight Redux 1----1,200
Wing------------------1,200
Oil Change--------------50
Grand Total---------98750

I was fortunate that the stock suspension is actually quite good, although the
Mustang does like to try and swap ends under heavy braking. It was a blast to
throw around the track.

Actually, on my first run I had an NA2 tuning instead of the supercharger and
ran a 6'39"; I also did a run with no FCT and R5s instead of R4s and ran a
6'42". The stock gearing has a ridiculously tall 5th gear though which
completely killed my top end speed.

Hmmm.. actually, that could work with the Supercharger, come to think of it. The
SC adds buttloads of low-end torque; I hadn't used one before for some reason
and it kinda threw me at first to find that spreading out my gears actually
improved acceleration rather than the other way 'round...

Another thing to try tomorrow, I guess.

---
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds:
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.


From: viperx2002 | Posted: 10/4/2005 4:37:20 AM
lol

I worked a little last night on my project and it seems that my ninitial pick
won't work.(I wish the HPA Golf had crossed my mind sooner...). So far the best
time I could manage with my project car was a 7:24, and I didn't realize till
after that it had left the suspension at the higher level so I was running 7000
credits over budget. I have not given up though.

---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/4/2005 4:54:30 AM

I put my foot in at 7 minutes flat because I'm at least 15 seconds slower than
Oldguy and he said 6'45. I picked a Mazda RX-8, and I think it's gonna work. I
spent all but 6k modifying it and my first lap was 7'02. Details later- off to
work!

Y'all have a blessed day
--
From: Flibutz | Posted: 10/4/2005 5:08:17 AM

I seem to have misunderstood the idea the first time. To be as legit as I can
under the circumstances, I'm holding on to my original claim of 6'35. After all,
that claim was made before even thinking about the Mustang I'm using now, let
alone modifying it. I think this makes it almost valid.

I upgraded it with:

Oil Change
AB Wing
Supercharger
Racing Chip
Racing Brakes
Weight Reductions 1&2
Racing Flywheel
Racing Exhaust
FC Suspension
R3s
Total so far: 98,950
I haven't decided on wheels yet.

I've run a 6'40 with it, and I think the 6'35 is within reach once I fine-tune
the suspension. This might take some time, it's not exactly my specialty, but
it's already faster than with the original setup. As it is now, it exhibits
incredible turning ability under braking while still being very stable in any
situation. This car just loves to go over the curbing!

I'd like to still lessen the understeer, but it already turns almost too fast
when trailbraked so I'm a bit puzzled. Well, the 'Ring beckons. Later!
---

From: timi_hendrix | Posted: 10/4/2005 6:21:41 AM

Okay, gonna find some flavored polish for my cowboy boots and aim at a 7 even.

-Tim

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 10/4/2005 7:03:26 AM

Foot in Mouth BR™
I think I have found a car. After looking everywhere and toying with the idea of
using the Buick( I reserve the right to use it my second car if I fail !). I
settled on the Chrysler 300c. $38780 with plenty left over for goodies.
With a couple of parts thrown in and no setting up I managed a 7' 24.890 on my
first run which was clean enough to fill me with hope. It is now 1 a.m. here so
I had better leave more for later.

Flibutz - You would appreciate this, I live in Tasmania but my everyday car was
built in Uusikaupunki - maybe you can tell me about it.

I would be happy to pick the WR for this week unless someone is desperate as I
did one not that long ago.

As Vincent Price would say Good Night

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 10/4/2005 2:06:05 PM

Mr. P -- I think the reason the American cars are getting so much attention in
this BR, is because they are about the only ones I have found that have
supercharger availability. CHEAP HORSEPOWER...YE HAH!!! Everyone remembered a
fast time they had put in on the ring and forgot that they had invested more
than the allowed 100,000 cr. to get there (at least that was the case with me).
The supercharger is about the only way to get much under the 7-minute mark.

Just my opinion, which has been wrong once or twice before.
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/4/2005 4:16:33 PM

So anyway, my foot is in at seven minutes, and my BR choice is:

2003 Mazda RX-8 Type S(j)

Purchased for 27,500 credits.

I then added:

22,500 R3 tires
1,200 Stage 1 weight reduction
13,500 Supercharger (running theme, eh?)
4,800 racing exhaust
1,500 racing chip
10,400 Fully Customizable Transmission
4,700 triple plate clutch
1,000 racing flywheel
4,700 racing brakes
1,200 wing
---------------------
65,500 spent in parts

93,000 total, leaving my RX-8 at 421hp (garage figure), weighing a trim 1192kg.

I, like Oldguy, may not have bitten off enough foot. My first lap was 7'02, and
while that may seem close to my target time, I'd forgotten to turn off the
driving aids.

The second lap (with mistakes) was 6'54, and should have been at least 6'50.
Mind you, I haven't tuned the transmission yet, and that's a single hot lap, not
the best lap of a run.

After driving a modified RX-8, I'm not sold that horsepower is the most
important ingredient here. The combination of a wing (set at 30? most racecars
have less downforce, do they not?) and racing tires makes any car
unrealistically fast through the bends.

I'd like my second helping of foot to be 6'42, and we'll go from there. Got any
hot sauce?
---

From: lmhansen | Posted: 10/4/2005 7:42:17 PM

Hello again, been gone for a little bit. Put together this little 4 minute movie
clip of the RX-7 LM Race car taking a trip around the ring. Obviously, a lot has
been cut out...

www.hansenonline.net/GT4/movies/rx7-ring1.wmv

---
"If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?"
GT4 Getting Started Walkthrough @ www.hansenonline.net/GT4


From: viperx2002 | Posted: 10/4/2005 8:15:04 PM

Either he added the high end turbo to that thing or the other cars were very
weak by comparison...

[vitg]

From: fed76 | Posted: 10/4/2005 8:36:38 PM

After 4 solid hours of racing I kept my foot out of my BR mouth, beating a 6:37.

First try, 05 Mustang, R3’s, supercharger, triple clutch, racing suspension and
exhaust, weight reduction 1 and a big ugly wing. Final cost 97850 with 486 HP,
oops make that 510 HP cause I forgot about the oil change. After about 3 laps of
tweaking, I pulled a really clean 6:46 and new I’d never find 9 seconds of
improvement so back to the drawing board I went.

Second, third and fourth tries where the Nissan 350Z (Z33), 350Z GT4 edition and
Fairlady Z option wheel. They all got super chargers, R3’s, chip, racing
suspension (except the Z33 which only got the sports exhaust), weight reduction
1, oil change, and big ugly wing. The Z33 also got port polishing since it is
33000 unlike the other 2 which are 36000.Final prices 97750 for the two special
Z’s and 98350 for the original.The Z33 got the best time of them with a 6;41 and
that was a pretty clean lap I think even first try. The Z’s seem better than the
Mustang I think just because the 6 speed stock tranny means 3rd gear can take
slower turns not having to grab 2’d as much as in the Mustang.

Finally back to the U.S, and into the Z06 (C5) vette, with super charger, racing
suspension, R3’s Racing breaks, chip, weight reduction 1, oil change and a big
ugly wing.Final Price 99920 final power 559. Then first lap I pulled a 6:36:272.
It was a perfectly clean lap and every lap thereafter just got worse.

Really don’t think I could beat that lap so I might try the Rufs for a bit now
for a pace change. Then maybe If I get the T.V. to myself again for a while I’ll
try for a 6:27 but to early to put shoe on it yet.

Just a friendly reminder to VIPERINTHEGRASS that he has the WR.

Happy racing all.


From: The White Ghost | Posted: 10/4/2005 8:45:39 PM

im aiming for 6:05 flat in my fimfotg (<-goofy yes)
ill be back with details in moments....
---
Su unica opcion es suicidio-choco2000


From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/4/2005 8:51:02 PM

Fed, if you liked the Z06, or like Corvettes, I implore you to drive the ZR-1
(stock, no driving aids), if you haven't yet.

I've not driven the Z06, but the ZR-1 has big hips that sink when you hit the
gas- fun, fun drive on the 'Ring.
---
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will
be the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:27


From: The White Ghost | Posted: 10/4/2005 9:12:43 PM

okay car 350Z option wheel version ST price 36,000Cr
mods...
R3 tires
Supercharger
semi-racing suspension
race chip
stage 1,2 lightening
racing exhaust
racing brakes
racing flywheel
wing
aids off
oil change overall i had 600cr left first lap....6:39.224 i should be able to
come close to 6:15 though gimme a few more laps
---
Su unica opcion es suicidio-choco2000

From: The White Ghost | Posted: 10/4/2005 9:20:44 PM

woo i said 6:05 hmm it looks like im eatin foot tonite cause 6:05 aint happin
ill replace that guess with a 6:15 that is in a few laps i be back with
results...wish me luck
---

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 10/4/2005 10:33:48 PM

I didn't realize there were so many non-American cars that had superchargers
available. I wish there was some way of knowing before having to buy it.
And good luck to you, Ghost. Anything under 6'30 I think deserves a
cookie...maybe two!! If you hit that 6'15 you should get a whole box!!!

From: Flibutz | Posted: 10/5/2005 3:45:55 AM

viperinthegrass - Wow, that's almost as close to the exact opposite side of the
globe as you can get from here! Hmm.. What could it be? a Porsche? No. That's
not an everyday car. A Saab? Opel Calibra? One of those Talbots from B.C.? There
are probably others but I can't remember them. The models they build have
changed a lot. I guess not many people even know cars are built in Finland.

BR:
I've been very anxious to try the Z, it sounds like a good one, but I'm not yet
satisfied with my times in the Mustang. I studied amar's experiences with the
car, and decided to ditch the FC suspension. Doesn't do much good if you're not
an expert tuner, anyway.. Traded it for R4 tyres and sport clutch, that helped a
lot. I would have got the foot deep in my mouth if it wasn't for amar, so thanks
to that direction.

So far, I've done a 6'34.3, which is kind of good because it's close to my
claimed FIM time but the car can definitely go much faster. For some reason, I
just can't seem to get the full potential out of it. And this is not to say it's
a bad car. It's a very good one. Maybe I should just get the Z and get back to
the Mustang later.
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/5/2005 4:21:33 AM

I'm seeing a lot of fast racecars made cheaply. This is absolutely a fun BR,
thanks MrP.

I have a question for you A Spec farmers- do homemade race cars get better or
worse A Spec points when pitted against the real thing?

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 10/5/2005 4:26:23 PM

Morning break, aahhh Coffee!
Did nothing last night, after two 16-hour days, just too tired. Sometimes
working two jobs sucks.

WR™
I have a car in mind; will definitely post selection by Friday morning your time
but in the meantime here is a teaser.

Never mind the spelling, Coober Pedy is well known for these beauties.

Flibutz – My Car is indeed a SAAB ( Swedish Automobiles Are Better) a 1977 GL
Coupe, it is a pity there are none in the game, I would love to punt one around
the Ring. I bought and fixed up like new a 1988 900i for my wife, so she could
do battle with the plethora of SUV’s clogging the roads.

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 10/5/2005 4:57:06 PM

After about 20 partial runs on the ring in my Monaro, a frustrated Soulidarity
gave up. Regardless, even a full clean run would probably not net me the 6'50
that I proclaimed when I shoved my entire leg in my mouth. After doing the 24
hour ring, I feel like my knowledge of where I need to be at any given time for
a 7 minute lap is pretty damn good. When I was running clean and fast (for me),
I was pretty much on par with a 7 minute lap. Unfortunately the furthest into a
lap I ever managed was Bergwerk. Spinning out, or performing my best impression
of a riding lawnmower, set me behind the mark, and I couldn't see the sense in
finishing an already failed lap. I may have time to try another car or two, but
we'll see.


From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/5/2005 5:23:31 PM | Message Detail

Here's a nice bit (with photos) about the car that recently broke the street
legal lap time on the Ring.

www.crash.net/uk/en/news_view.asp?cid=26&nid=120127

Is it wishful thinking to hope to see that ride on the PS3?
---
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will
be the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:27


From: viperx2002 | Posted: 10/5/2005 5:45:19 PM | Message Detail
If only he had had some more time to tweak and run.
---

From: Havok3595 | Posted: 10/5/2005 6:59:21 PM

I ran a few "victory laps" on the Nurburgring tonight, as mentioned in my topic.
I'm really beginning to see how you guys get lost in that part of the game. I
should be going to bed, but my mind is considering busting out the BMW 2002
Turbo for a quick spin.
---
Please take a moment to look at this petition. Thank you.
boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=21445413


From: Von | Posted: 10/5/2005 7:32:39 PM |

A Sub-7 Minute run in a street legal car? Thats gotta be freaking scary. Its a
tricky thing to do it in GT4, without those minor consequences of getting
mangled or getting dead. Guy has some skill. Car must be freakin awesome.

Can we have someone just once try to make a sub 6 minute lap in the Sauber irl?
I think itd be incredibly fun to watch... until the guy dies anyways.
---
Tiny subaru versus gigantic german deathring!-Amarynceus


From: Flibutz | Posted: 10/6/2005 2:54:06 AM |

Incredible stuff. Those Radicals really kick arse!
*is hoping to see one in GT5*

About the BR, I just stopped by to say this:

RX-8 TypeS > 350Z GT4 > Mustang GT

This is, or course, dependant on chosen upgrades, but this is the case with my
FIM cars. The RX-8 already beat my 350Z time with a 7'27.286 this wasn't even a
clean lap.. But I'm finding it harder to beat than I thought. Must have really
nailed some corners. Anyway, I'd be satisfied with anything even marginally
under that but I want a clean lap.

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 10/6/2005 2:43:59 PM |

I managed to get a few laps in late last night with the Chrysler 300C, and had a
pretty good setup working with money still in the bank. the only problem seemed
to be the Car was very slow accelerating although speed was good, hmm? then I
twigged to what was wrong - its a porky beast and I had forgotten about weight
and this baby has got plenty!!
With about 8 seconds to go to achieve my FIM prediction
I will reorganise my modifications and shed some weight and see what happens
tonight.
Flibutz - nice work on guessing the weekend rider, I will officially confirm
model tonight.
My coupe does indeed have handbrake on front wheels as well as twin carbies and
four wheel disc brakes, good suspension and a body that is still as tight and
solid as the day it was built.
More later

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/6/2005 6:01:33 PM |

I'm happy that my BR could entertain everyone so much. I thought it would be a
pretty fun one when I thought of it, and after development it seemed to get
better and better.

I haven't had time yet to run my updated HPA, and after the time that Flibutz
put in with the RX-8, I had better be able to make it. I'll never forgive myself
for "cheating" if it wasn't necessary.

As for the Radical, I'd hesitate to call that a street car, whether it
technically is one or not. It looks more like a closed-wheel F1 to me. The fact
that he demolished the previous best by so much says a lot, too. I'll have to
add in my "Holy ****!", though, since 6'55 is insane. Nice find, Muse.

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 10/6/2005 7:59:37 PM |
Who is your damn daddy?!

I didn't want to steal someone else's car to accomplish my goal, but all the
talk about the RX-8 brought the RX-7 to mind, and there happened to be one in
the new car lot. With some R4s, Stage 2 Turbo (no supercharger or NA available),
Racing Chip, Racing Intercooler, Racing Brakes, Semi Racing Flywheel, a wing
(max downforce), oil change, and car wash, I came in about 1000 shy of the
budget. I only ran one lap, with plenty of minor errors, and pulled in a 6'57.
I'll definitely make a few more runs in this badboy tomorrow, and I'm confident
I can finally pull my leg back out of my mouth.

Obviously the R4s accounted for the amazing handling, but the ability to drift
and pull out of a drift at will for even a driver of my skill level was
amazingly fun. I don't think it has a sixth gear, but since I never hit the rev
limiter, even at 170+ on D-H, I didn't need one.

I was pretty disappointed with my part in this BR until now. weeeee!
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/6/2005 8:00:13 PM |

I haven't driven an Opel yet. I almost hope it's the Tigra. We've had a string
of "pleasant surprise" FF cars for WR, and I'm curious to see if it fits the
bill.
---

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 10/6/2005 8:50:01 PM |

There's something not right about handing cars like the Cerbera Speed 12, VW
Nardo, Tommy ZZII their asses in an RX-7. I couldn't help but family cup this
car just to see. Only 135 points, but even with a pit stop (R4s) and more
mistakes than I could shake a stick at, I still pulled across the finish line
more than 4 seconds in front of the ZZII, and 8 seconds ahead of the Cien.

I should be in bed, but I'll definitely be running a few more laps tomorrow.

[vitg]

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 10/7/2005 3:13:07 AM |
WR™

If my calculations are correct it should be after Midnight, Friday morning
Gamefaqs time so for the early starters the pick for this weekends Rider is :

Opel Speedster Turbo 2000

Now heres the thing Muse, I would have gone with the Tigra (as you were keen on
it) as a bit of a change of pace after the last few days, but in my version the
Tigra is badged as a Vauxhall !
This is really confusing because over here, Corsa, Vectra, Astra & Calibra are
badged as Holdens (General Motors ) I dont think we get the Tigra, but if we did
it would probably be a fully imported Opel ! (as we dont get Vauxhalls at all !!
– I think this is right, but dont quote me )
In the end it came down to a coin toss to decide between the Speedster and the
Vectra( tails won )

Happy Motoring

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/7/2005 3:15:27 AM |
Soulidarity- The AI seems to have as much trouble with the Cerbera S12 as we do-
it's just not smart enough to back off on the throttle. The others you mentioned
are usually good competition, though.

My congratulations to everyone who either came close to or succeeded in removing
their foot from their mouth. So far, I think I'm the farthest from my goal of
everyone.
Later.
---
From: Amarynceus | Posted: 10/7/2005 4:13:53 AM |


Hello, Von and Imhansen -- nice to see you guys back in the thread.

Viper -- nice pick! I actually haven't driven the Opel Turbo yet, so I'm looking
forward to it. I'd been considering the regular Speedster for a WR for a while
actually.

On the subject of Vauxhalls / Opels they had a Vauxhall speedster on Top Gear last
week... man, what a nice car. This week they had a Clio... yum. I know some
don't like the looks of them but I think they're just great to look at. It was
also nice to see that in real life when pushed past their limits, they do
exactly what they do to me when I push them too hard in-game -- give up and swap
ends. =D

---
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds:
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/7/2005 4:36:51 AM |

The Speedster is an excellent choice VITG, I'm glad the coin was smart enough to
disregard what I was keen on (In fact, I hope MrPinstripes has forgiven me for
being keen on the see tee are too).

Y'all have a blessed day


---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/7/2005 4:37:48 AM |
Oh, and, welcome back yourself Amarynceus!

From: Flibutz | Posted: 10/7/2005 10:00:02 AM |

The Speedster sounds like a good choice. MR fun..Oh yeah. I haven't driven one
in ages, not after the Speedster Cup and that one was tuned. I'm expecting
challenging handling!

There was a non-turbo Speedster / Clio V6 comparo in a finnish car mag a few
years ago and The Speedster was faster. IIRC the track was a pretty technical
one though.

It's possible I won't be able to drive it before sunday, but then I got the
whole day for GT...
---
From: Soulidarity | Posted: 10/7/2005 12:00:43 PM |

meh, I guess I'll have to settle for being 7 seconds off. After more than 10
promising laps, each of which was destroyed with either one major error or a
series of minor errors, I'm throwing in the towel. 6'57 is much closer than I
was thinking I was going to get a couple days ago, and I'm happy with that. I'll
pick up the Speedster tomorrow.

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 10/7/2005 2:14:05 PM |

So I lied. I picked up the Speedster Turbo in a color that I'm not even going to
try to spell (bluish-purplish). My initial time of 8'41 had about a half dozen
costly mistakes, but I really enjoyed driving this car. Its mildly
understeerish, but not unbearably so, and under trail braking it felt like it
wanted to wag its tail. Being that I don't care for drifting or oversteer
anymore than I like pushing, I countersteered each time it felt like the back
end might want to slide out, and found Speedo to be pretty easy to reign back
in, which was a nice change from many of the cars I've been driving. Considering
how well this car grips on S2s, I may actually make the leap and try out N2s
with this car (something that I've never actually done with any car).

It goes without saying that driving aids were off and driver ballast was added
in. IMO, this was an excellent WR choice.

---

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/7/2005 3:55:08 PM |


Speedster Turbo, huh? I haven't driven one of them since I realized the standard
version was a better choice for the one-make race, so this should be fun. I
remember it being a bit squirrely, but that was with 300ish horsepower behind
it.
It's my son's birthday today, and I have to go do birthday things. I'll take all
my current projects out tomorrow morning.
Later. And no, I won't save you any cake.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/7/2005 5:36:11 PM |

October is the best month of the year for birthdays. At least, it is in
Mississippi. It's when the humidity breaks, the fair comes in town, and the very
blue of the sky is unique ("October blue").

Having said all that, I bought the Mandarin Speedster because I'm an Iron Man
fan from the wayback days.

Peace.

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/7/2005 6:20:52 PM |

Have you ever noticed how the 'Ring has a groove? Most tracks have "a line" or
"a preferred line", but it's different in Nurburg. This track has it's own way
of guiding cars around.

For example, if you take Schwedenkreuz in the middle or the outside of the
track, it's up to the car to keep you on the road. However, if you take it
inside, rubbing the kerb, the track will keep you on road, and you simply have
to "catch" the car as you exit the bend.

Metzgesfeld, "Miss hit miss", Wipperman, the last right hander of
schwalbenschwanz, all of these bends (and more) grab a car and keep it there
(usually when you hit them on the inside).

Well, the Opel Speedster Turbo, it has a needle for that groove. I had to throw
away my first lap getting a feel for the car. However, the second time around
was filled joy and light blue time splits.

The Speedster Turbo is silk that drapes lightly over curves, subtle and
incendiary, needing no lace to get its point across. I like the car.
My best lap thus far is 8'11, on S2's, no ballast, a clean but not perfect lap.
However, it's a wonderful choice for WR.
---

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/7/2005 6:31:22 PM |

I couldn't resist one lap (and I actually only did one) with the Speedster, just
to see how it handled. N2s, driver ballast, oil change, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Coincidentally, mine is also in Mandarin (gotta love orange cars). I picked up
some BBS #10 wheels, too.

The Speedster is a lot smoother without the excess power, and it handles the
N-grade tires wonderfully. I was expecting some angry oversteer in places (like
most MR cars), but the Speedster seems to keep it's cool.

My first bit of lap was aborted after Flugplatz (my son tripped over my USB
cord), but the second was clean. I wasn't pushing at all, and ended up with a
8'38.8.

Later (again).

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 10/7/2005 7:07:33 PM |

October is a special time here on the shores of Lake Superior, too. I assure you
"October Blue" is not unique to Mississippi. The Maples are already changing to
shades of bright red and orange that belong to them alone, the birches and
aspens turning to various yellows, and multitudes of browns will soon fill the
spaces in between. I believe it's the absence of green that makes the blue of
the sky (and the lake) deeper, darker and indeed more blue.

October is also a month of reminiscence. The calender says the year ends after
December. But those of us of the North Woods know that the year truly ends when
apples and pumpkins are finished growing, the sound of lawn mowers is no long
heard and the bared midriffs of young women once again go into hiding. It's a
time of fond remembrances of the year past, but also a time of wishing there was
more.

*cruel segway time*

That's how the Opel Speedster Turbo left me feeling...wishing there was
more...horsepower, that is. Perhaps I was spoiled by running it the way it was
necessary (fully modded) to win the Speedster one-make races, but it seems to me
that is the way the car is intended to behave. Don't get me wrong. I love the
way it handles, except that it gets a little tail-happy under braking. But it
just feels like, when you plant your foot to the floor something should
happen...and it doesn't.

There is a little of the "let's see how long I can keep my foot glued to the
floor" fun, like in the Honda S800 Race Car. But to a much lesser degree. It
also screams for a close-ratio transmission. It seemed like every time I wanted
to power out of a corner I was too low in the power band get a boost, but too
high to downshift.

I ran 4 laps, on S2's and without driver ballast, like always. My last lap was
an 8'08.6. I'm sure I could do a little better, but I could never get it into
the the 7's, which was my original goal. This car is a thoroughbred, but needs
more than 197 hp to raise my pulse-rate.
---
From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/7/2005 8:33:35 PM |

Oldguy, Minnesota sounds lovely. Mississippi makes up in Oaks and Magnolias what
it lacks in Maples, but I'd like to see those lakes someday.

As for the Speedster's power (or lack), I find that driving to one of the
classical tunes on the soundtrack helps me lower my speed expectations. Not that
I drive slower, but the peaceful music makes it easier for me to enjoy the car
for what it is, and not what I want it to be. Whatever works for you is what is
best, but I thought I'd pass that along.
The Speedster is also great fun in Liga A, but the tracks there are quite suited
for lower powered cars. The autumn ring is one of the most underrated tracks in
the game, especially at 250hp and under.

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 10/7/2005 8:37:28 PM |

Quick post , gotta run
Australias biggest car race Bathurst 1000 on today and tomorrow
If you have cable look for Channel 10 Australia Coverage, or if you have the
horsepower search for www.v8supercars.com.au

From: Amarynceus | Posted: 10/7/2005 11:43:13 PM |

I just so happened to have an ebony Speedster sitting in my garage, completely
untouched. I did a quick lap late last night and my initial impression was
tainted by the fact that I've been running nothing but full-blooded racers for a
while. At first I couldn't get past the fact that I wasn't pushing 100 within a
few seconds of opening the throttle.

But I ran a few more tonight, and it's a very nice car. After running so much
downforce lately, it was nice to get a taste of good ol' lift-throttle oversteer
again. The Speedster is very well balanced and a pleasure to drive, though it
would definitely benefit from a six-speed box with tighter ratios. There are
more than a few corners where it's simply impossible to stay within its
powerband; most notably it bogged a bit in 3rd and 4th. 5th was perfectly suited
though; with a decent exit from Galgenkopf I was pushing against the redline
coming down from Breidscheide.

8'08" so far, with a sandbox trip at Pflanzgarten; a perfect lap should yield an
8 flat.

Beautiful car, too. I love the look of it.

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/8/2005 7:22:03 AM |

Foot in Mouth- Target time of 6'20

I haven't entirely removed that foot, but all I've got left to suck on is a few
toes, and I can live with that. After some dinking and tweaking, I settled on
the following mods for my HPA:

FC Transmission
Racing Flywheel
R5 Tires
Stage 1 & 2 Weight Reduction
Straight Type AS Wing

I had the majority of my tranny settings from the last time memorized, so all I
had to do was re-input them and make some tweaks. I softened the suspension a
bit and raised the ride height, but everything else was set on "stun" (no
ballast, no aids, oil change, max downforce).

Starting off with a super-long 1st gear is a bit nerve-wracking in the HPA. It
only generates 30 or so horsepower up to 4,000 RPM or so (I'm not exaggerating
by much), and accelerating from a stop feels like you're driving a motor
carriage instead of a 600 hp monster. Once you hit about 3.8k, though, it really
takes off.

I've come to the conclusion that I don't like R-grade tires. Every car I've put
them on (excepting race cars, of course) has turned into an uncontrollable POS.
The HPA exhibits such terrible oversteer on landings and under braking that I
briefly considered ditching it and finding something else.

The tradeoff was, of course, that the turn-in and front-end grip was great
around any corner that I didn't have to brake into. For a 4WD, the HPA handles
beautifully- no understeer under acceleration, and just a hint of oversteer when
you'd want it. My opinions may change if I ever drive it on N-grade tires,
though.

My best lap was by no means a perfect one, and clocked in at 6'23.7. I could
shave the last 3 seconds off without too much trouble (another 4 or 5 runs), and
I'd bet there's more than that lurking in there. That will have to do, though,
as I have another car to run and some work to do around the house.

Later.

---

Well, everyone has gone to bed, I have the PC, the PS & the telly to myself so I
will prepare some posts in between laps. I am feeling pretty smug right now as I
have had a goood night.
Back soon.

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 10/8/2005 8:28:51 AM |

First things first, thanks for the kind words about the WR™.
Mr. Pinstripes many happy returns to your son, Birthdays are great fun. If he is
a young fella who likes this sort of stuff tell him you drive with an Aussie who
has a Black & Brown Rabbit called Little Bunny Grunter who lives in a big
enclosure with our pet goat Mini.
Muse and Oldguy where you live sounds really beautiful I will tell you a bit
about where I live later. More laps back soon.

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 10/8/2005 8:33:08 AM |

Foot - in – Mouth BR™
Car – Chrysler 300C '05 “Cool Vanilla”

Target Time : 7' 07.445
Time achieved : 7' 07.276

I guess my target was a bit conservative, but I achieved it with money left
over,in fact I way overshot the time and had to remove some parts to slow down.

Car 34780
S'charger 13500
Wgt. Reduction 2 6700 ( Final weight 1652kg, Final Hp 540)
R2 Tyres 10500 ( R1 would be good too )
Engine Bal 12000
Port & Polish 5500
82980 total

This was enough to achieve the time but I added a semi racing exhaust and chip
for an extra 4400 cause it sounded better. Other parts removed – triple clutch ,
racing flywheel.
At first with this car I thought I had bitten off more than I could chew (again)
as it was so heavy but I was in for a nice suprise. Mark my words this is a good
car.
I tried different combinations of mods and ended up buying 3 Cars so I could
back out of the permanent changes if I wished.
Final setup was stock suspension & tranny as they were more than adequate, I
think the extra weight helps “settle” things down when pushing. The close
gearbox I tried gave good acceleration but hit the limiter early on at DH.
I thought the stock box with engine balancing to reset the redline would be
okay, it was but 5th. Gear is wasted really.
The car drives really well with some easily controlled oversteer and is fast but
somehow not stressful to drive.
I also built a fully modded version, tuned the FC gearbox to balance top speed &
acceleration but kept stock suspension and was improving my BR time by 16
seconds.
I would really appreciate a fast guy having a drive and swapping impressions.

More to come!

[vitg]

From: Flibutz | Posted: 10/8/2005 10:48:07 AM |

Mr.P - Good work in getting the foot out of your mouth. You did stick it well in
there. A late congratulation for your son, too.

viperinthegrass - Within .2 sec of your FIM time? That's very close, congrats on
that. You got me curious about the 300C, I'll try and find the time to try it
out. IIRC it has been a WR, too (which I missed) so I have every reason to try
it. And there's a big tradition to its name and its hemi-V8.
BTW, about the Saab... That's finnish quality you're talking about! And swedish
airplane-grade design.

In my PAL version there are both Vauxhall (right-hand drive) and Opel (left-hand
drive) versions of the Speedsters. I have them in many colours already, have to
find a color I don't have yet.
--

From: The White Ghost | Posted: 10/8/2005 1:26:01 PM |

what crap i tried that same night a few times but could not for the life of me
find a rhythm at all and now im trying to play but my mom and sister wont budge
from the damn living room.................................

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 10/9/2005 3:39:15 AM |

WR™
8' 11.669 , smooth! This is getting close to limits as a driver but I will try
again later tonight.

After reading your post from yesterday Wanderingmuse, suggesting playing a
classical music track for the speedster, something jogged my memory, so I went
to look at my notes ( when I am playing I keep heaps of notes ) and there it
was.
Now I dont know who proposed the idea ( it was back in the dearly departed diary
IX) but the basic idea was this :

Pick your favorite (family?) cars to view as a replay, then pick your own
approx. 8 min music selection to accompany your replay.
“Thats a good idea” thinks I, so I dug out some old vinyl and starting cueing up
tracks to go with my replays (my wife just walks by now just shaking her head,
she knows I am a lost cause). I just never had the chance to write them up and
post them before, so here goes.

At the time the idea was mooted , Moby Dick ( Cadillac Cien ) was the weapon of
choice so the easy pick was a Drum Solo by John Bonham, ( particularly one he
played with his bare hands!!) Great drummer, sorely missed.
If I am feeling a bit depressed or down, something like the Charger 440 RT ( in
black not the other one from Pretty in Pink ) with “Bullet in the Head” - Rage
against the Machine + Rolling Stones “Paint it Black” would be reflective of my
mood otherwise “Riders on the Storm” The Doors would do it.
If I am feeling mellow and at peace with the world, the Special Buick with some
Lynard Skynard is perfect, “Freebird” is too long but “Sweet Home Alabama” is
near enough.
The most beautiful Car I have, '69 Stingray in Burgundy Metallic, is also a
mellow ride along with a bit of J.J. Cale or CSN&Y (anything).

My favorite replay Car is the E- Type Jaguar, backed by some old Steely Dan
stuff, “Reeling in the Years” and “Once Bitten Twice Shy” by Ian Hunter, is very
satisfactory, ( I have these tracks on my driving mix tape I play when on the
road).
Now the next one is an outlier as it does not qualify but for the Classical fans
maybe the Black Toyota GT1 ( its Black, its Evil) along with Richard Wagner “The
Ring of the Nibelungen” would be very dramatic, but at 16 hours it is a bit
long, although the March ( battle ? Song ? ) of the Valkyries would be awesome.
I like this topic and I hope it gets a look in.

More Later

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/9/2005 8:08:01 AM |

I had forgotten about the "8 Minute Mixer Tape" idea. I'll have to think about
that, since I love music and I love driving, and this way I'll get to listen
to/do a lot of both.

Muse- That sounds like a damn good RGT time. I had such problems trying to keep
the front end turning that I gave up on my run (hence the no comparison from
me). Maybe I should give it another shot. I'm really curious to see how you do
with the Tuscan, and how the Tuscan will do against the RGT.

Viper- I think it's Flight of the Valkyries, but I could be wrong, too. I'm not
that huge into classical, and my knowledge is limited.

---
From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/9/2005 12:05:57 PM |

TVR Tuscan vs. Ruf RGT

I took my RGT back out of retirement and out for a spin again. I have to recant
somewhat on my opinions of it. It doesn't have the same LIFT-THROTTLE OVERSTEER
that the B & CTRs do, but there is some there. I'd bet a softer suspension would
bring it to the fore, and kill some of the obnoxious sliding, too.

I still have problems with the Rufs' knife-edge handling (you're either going
very fast or very backwards), though. My best lap still had an off on the
straight after the Pflanzgarten run, which later laps suggest cost me about a
second.

Best lap- 7'52.1 (N2, oil, ballast, no aids)
Estimated "perfect" lap- 7'45

The Tuscan, on the other hand, is very forgiving. Unfortunately I couldn't
un-Ruf myself enough to drive a (slightly) nose-heavy FR worth a crap. I kept
braking too early, lifting the throttle, then swearing when the car didn't start
to swing into the turn. My current best was 8'00.5, with multiple offs and one
lawnmowing excursion (going into Aremburg).

As such, I'll have to use an older time, from the "Beat the M5 BR". I can't
remember how much room for improvement I had, but I don't think it was that
much.

Best lap- 7'53.x (N2, oil, ballast, no aids)

Conclusion- The Tuscan vs. RGT battle is ultimately about driver skill. They're
close enough in performance that there can be no hands-down winner.

However, the RGT weighs 300 kg more than the Tuscan and has a worse P/W ratio
(by 0.4 or so), so gets my nod as the faster car.

However (Mk II), I'd bet that over multiple laps, the Tuscan's consistency (and
ability to forgive mistakes) would win out over the RGT's raw speed.

Overall winner- The TVR Tuscan, since it comes in cooler colors.

Muse- Thanks for encouraging me (by example) to give the RGT another shot.
Vincent7th (wherever he wandered off to) saved the BTR for me, and you've saved
the RGT. Now if only I can get a clean lap in with the CTR, I'll be happy.

---

I don't think I'll get another shot at the WR for a bit, so my 8'38 will have to
stand. I was hoping to wean myself off fast cars today, but the Tuscan/RGT thing
sucked me in.
---
From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/9/2005 12:36:56 PM |

Thanks Mr Pinstripes. I may need help with the Tuscan time. The braking is so
different from RR to FR that I keep throwing my Tuscan off the track. The speed
has to come from a different place in the corner. I have a hunch it's there,
though.

I don't normally get to play much on Sundays (my house is a football house), but
I'm off tomorrow, so we'll see. I'll post my times as soon as I get them.

The lush background and daytime setting of the Nordschliefe define the music
that fits.

"Over the Hills and Far Away" by Led Zeppelin
"Glory and Consequence" by Ben Harper
"Me and Bobby McGee" by Janis Joplin

anything by the Screaming Trees off the "Sweet Oblivion" album

"American Girl" by Tom Petty

Techno music fits too (breaks especially)- Hybrid, Dave London, Underworld, etc.


I'd be curious to see how old fashioned bluegrass fit- anyone have the O'Brother
Where Art Thou soundtrack?
---

From: Flibutz | Posted: 10/9/2005 12:50:00 PM | Message Detail
WR:

Opel Speedster Turbo '00 in chagalleblau. My fifth Speedster/VX220 so colour
choices were limited. Looks good, except for the straight from the front view in
GT Auto.

I never would have guessed that the Speedster is an excellent all-terrain
vehicle! It doesn't seem to care much if it is on tarmac or grass, and it
doesn't even notice most bumps, almost never losing contact with the road.

Because of this, I found myself driving "the cheap extra-width Nordschleife".
When most cars like to have all wheels on tarmac, my Speedster tactic could be
called partial shortcutting. That is, I cut over grass with two wheels in
numerous bends, and if I was running only slightly wide, I didn't always bother
to slow down for it. This led to many restarts when I accidentally shortcutted
too much or ran too wide, but it worked.

My best licence test-clean lap (still looked a bit cheaty though) was a 8'00.2,
and I clocked a 7'59.2 where I only ran wide at Metzgesfeld(?). I might try to
get a faster clean lap today, but I don't think I can do better than 7'58 or
7'57 or maybe not under 8min at all because it's a high-risk driving style.

The Speedster is surprisingly stable. It does have some of the usual MR
character, but it's like the light coke of the MR beasts. I think it could serve
well as the first MR car for beginners who don't want to jump straight into the
deep end.

On the negative side, it sounds a bit dull.
---
From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/9/2005 4:32:11 PM |

Someone took Audi's 1.8L Turbo engine and stuffed it into a Caterham frame.

europeancarweb.com/features/0511ec_voort/
---
From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/9/2005 6:00:35 PM |

MrPinstripes- that the RGT vs Tuscan 6 comparison would come down to a draw
determined by driver skill is fine by me.

My best lap with the Tuscan is presently 7'37, which has at least five seconds
worth of slip ups. Galkenkopf, pflantzgarten, and the sweeping left into to A-F
are evading me. I can get two of the three decent on a given lap, but not all
three, it seems.

The RGT may not be as stable as the Tuscan, but that doesn't make it unstable.
It's tricky for the downhill plunge and sweeping turns after pflantzgarten (that
one spot is where I lost time on my 7'29 lap too), but the rear balance is what
makes it so fast every where else.

I can only imagine some of the edge comes from driving N2's. I'd bet a shiny
penny that if you were to put some "circuit" sports medium rubber on the RGT
after all that N2 driving you might find it easier to control.

I wouldn't put either car on anything less than N3's, but I'm a grip snob. To
me, N2's don't belong on car worth more than 75,000 cr.

I love the TVR engine note, though. It definately wins the sound comparison.

As for the Opel Speedster Turbo- while the obvious comparison may be the Elise
(either the 190 or Motorsport, especially), I'd like to mention two worth
driving if you're into little quick MR cars:

ASL Garaiya which is a brilliant competitor for the Opel Speedster Turbo, and on
my list of "good idea for WR" cars.

Tommy kaira ZZ-S which fits the bill of light, quick, MR.

Perhaps a coming weekend will allow for trotting these out to see how they stand
up (once WR contributions have been made, of course: work first, then play).

Peace.
---
From: Onikaze | Posted: 10/9/2005 7:53:06 PM

www.fastdrive.org/download.php?view.677

Username: mig_user
Password: mig

Wow.

6'55 in a Radical SR8 (the one with the twinned Hayabusa engine 2.6 Liter V-8)
320 Hp, 1320 Kilos.

The driver bets he could have knocked 30 seconds off with slicks.
---
If I wanted to play as a girly and whiny emo guy I'd play one of the single
player FF games.BlackBladeRune on MGS2


From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/9/2005 8:21:54 PM |

Wow, Oni. Thank you too much for sharing that. Very, very sweet.

Did you ever get your PS2 back?

---

From: Onikaze | Posted: 10/10/2005 6:02:56 AM |
Not yet.

I'll be bugging my brother in law for it soon though.

In good news though, I got a 5 week old kitten (Gideon), and a job
(Groundskeeper at the Apartment Complex I live in...woo hoo, no gas costs to get
to work) so I am a happy panda.

From: CocaineReaver2k | Posted: 10/10/2005 9:03:48 AM |

Gratz on the cat and new job 'Kaz.
Anywho, I took the Opel 'round the 'ring twice last night. It's certainly a tame
car to drive. Tight handling, good exit speeds, easy to control. What more can
you ask for? My first lap I had a few 'oops' moments, namely a spill in the sand
trap at Pflanzgarten I believe. The second lap was relatively mistake free, and
it showed with an 8 second improvement over the first.
Times...
Lap 1: 8'23.7xx
Lap 2: 8'15.532

Nice choice for the WR™ I must say.
---
My GT4 Pictures:
pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/slinky25252/album?.dir=/9bfd&.src=ph

[vitg]

From: viperinthegrass | Posted: 10/10/2005 2:39:10 PM |
WR™

Reasons to be cheerful – Part 1

Just had a very nice three days off from work
Very satisfied with my BR™ and WR™ efforts
Have rediscovered some gems in my old vinyl collection, I am still wading
through my cassette collection (300 + plus Albums)
Still able to beat my Son at any track with any car he chooses (mind you he
hands me my you know what in a sling when playing Tekken)
Got to watch some of the Bathurst 1000k (when will they learn you cannot win on
the first lap but you sure can lose!)

Now to pass on the WR™ baton I thought to celebrate his Victory in Japan, I will
pass it on to the Flying Finn a.k.a. Flibutz

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/10/2005 4:25:33 PM |

Would someone, anyone, be so kind as to describe their approach to
Pflantzgarten? In my efforts to drain every last second from both the Tuscan
Speed 6 and the RGT I've lost my confidence with that bend and can't seem to
stay out of the kitty litter now.

I took for granted how to get through there cleanly, and now I'm finding all
sorts of new ways to bounce off the Armco (and into the sand). I didn't have
this much problem with Pflantzgarten when I was learning the course.

To whomever takes the time, I thank you in advance.

Peace.
---

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 10/10/2005 4:42:15 PM |

I'm hardly the most qualified to answer that muse, and I haven't driven either
car on the ring, but I'll give you the best information that I can.

I always approach from the left side of the track and do the majority of my
braking before the "jump". If the car is slower, than I may only half brake
before going airborne, and do the rest once I've landed. Both cars you're using
are likely too fast for that, and you'll need to do all or nearly all of your
braking before catching air. Upon landing, I cut quickly to the inside. Despite
rarely going in the sand, or off the track on the inside, I rarely get an ideal
line through this turn. I usually cut it too tight, have to back off, then
correct, which loses me precious tenths nearly every lap.
That probably doesn't help much, and more qualified help from Pin or one of the
other vets would likely yield better advice.
---

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 10/10/2005 6:05:28 PM |

Muse--First of all, according to my map, the corner you're referring to is
Brunnchen. Pflantzgarten is the second left after that, after you go up the
little hill where you drop down again.

Anyway, my first advice for ANY corner you're having trouble with on the Ring,
is to just stop, turn around, go back and do it again (and again and again, if
necessary). It just takes to long and too many other things go through your mind
to wait until you get to the same corner again next time around, just to make
the same mistake all over again.

I just now grabbed my Speed 6 and made a quick run, and did the "turn around and
go back thing" five or six times to really see what I do there, specifically in
the Speed 6, because it varies slightly from car to car. But, here's my advice
for that car and that corner.

Stop at the top of the hill preceding that corner (that's right...just stop and
look at it) about where it's written on the road in blue spray paint "2 FAST 4
YOU!". The road bends slightly left, right, left, and then the hard right with
the kitty litter. Now, you see that little right-hand bend before the hard
right? Make sure you run your right-side tires over the curbing there to line
yourself up with the left side of the road just before the jump.

With the Speed 6, I keep it floor-boarded until I'm actually airborne, then lock
up the brakes while in mid-air. You want to be aimed so that you land about in
the middle of the road. Also turn hard right while your in mid-air, so that you
run two wheels about half-way between the curbing and the guard-rail (through
the grass). You should be on the brakes for about two seconds. Then just gas it
again and keep turning hard right.

I think everyone does it a little different, but that's how I do it. Go run back
and forth at least 5 or 6 times, or however many it takes to get it to feel
"right". And like I said, each car is different. Some, you need to brake just
before the jump. Some, you don't have to brake at all.

If you keep going into the sand, just brake earlier (before the jump), but that
is the best LINE I've found through there.

Hope that helped.
---

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/11/2005 3:33:26 AM |

Yesterday was my birthday, and I was too busy to post anything here. Hmm. This
is the third b-day in October... January must be really boring.

My wife ordered "Going Faster!" for me, but they have to wait until a new print
run. I also recieved GT2 from my monster-in-law, which has been getting a bit of
playtime. I was dreading the license tests (I'd always heard how hard they
were), but the seem about on par with GT3/4 so far. It's really amazing how far
games (and GT in particular) have come in a few years.

Still no cake for you!

Muse- Like Soulidarity said, do most of your speed-control braking before you
hit the dropoff. With a stable car, you'll probably want to lightly trailbrake
on landing and around the first bit of the bend. With a skittery car (read that
as any Ruf), you'll want to brake more beforehand and do whatever you can to
stabilize the car on landing and turn-in.

The Pflanzgarten run (Brunnchen, Pflanz I and Pflanz II) gives me a boatload of
trouble in any remotely unstable car. The Tuscan will eat it up, but the Ruf is
a nightmare through there. I find it very interesting how different cars have
problems in different spots.

The Rufs benefit a lot from heavy left-foot braking. While braking into an
unstable area, keep on the gas a bit (30%-50%) and brake harder. This will keep
the weight from transferring up front as fast and keep oversteer to a minimum. I
found the Ford GT an excellent learner car for just about any LFB technique,
especially on S-grade tires.

Don't worry about "backsliding". I found that as I improved on one section of
the 'Ring, I'd get worse at another. If I was working on my line through
Bergwerk, my Miss-Hit-Miss went to Hell. Just slow down a bit too much until you
get over it.

Later.
---
From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/11/2005 4:22:07 AM |

Thank you all very, very much!

---
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will
be the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:27

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/11/2005 4:23:02 AM |

Oh, and Happy Birthday MrPinstripes!
---

From: sackedagain | Posted: 10/11/2005 7:29:42 AM |

Just poking my head in to say hello. Best volume ever, I think. Haven't been
GT4'ing much, but did spend a little time in single model races the other day.
After, I took a couple cars out to the 'Ring. I'm definitely rusty memory-wise,
but feel like I'm seeing the road better. I attribute that to IRL escapades in
my Miata, which has taught me to keep my eye down the road. Glance at the apex
and look down road for the exit point.
Anyway, it's turning cold here in Michigan. I'm sure more 'RIng time is near.

From: oldguy1957 | Posted: 10/11/2005 12:55:58 PM |

Good point about the eyes, Sacked. The eyes should almost always go to the entry
point of the next turn, then the apex, and then the exit point. A good example
of "exit-point management" is the Schwalbenschwanz right-left combo. If you just
look at the apex and then the look for the next corner, you'll usually drift to
the outside (and possibly off the track and into the armco). But if you
concentrate on keeping the car to the right as you go through that curve,
(keeping your eyes on the inside curbing) you are set up much better for a
slightly late apex for the following left, which will keep you out of the kitty
litter at a higher speed.

Just one of the dozens of places on the ring where a tenth or two can be gained
or lost.

From: bruudlinho | Posted: 10/11/2005 1:22:00 PM |

Hi all

Pinstripes, Muse, Amarynecus (sp), Oni etc
how you all doing?
You may or may not remember me, i really don't know. I haven't posted for a while
because I haven't played the game for a while. My PS2 has not been switched on in
the last few weeks and i booted up GT4 just last night. Naturally, I went
straight to the ring - i think I came off at least 6 times in my TT Touring Car
(which is my car of choice and I can normally lap perfectly)
So yeh

Whats been happening?

Any WR of worthy mention?

Keep Ringin Guys

Bruud

x
From: Onikaze | Posted: 10/11/2005 1:32:26 PM |

I don't brake at the entrance of Pflanzgarten I (the zig zag downhill with the
jump and the double right butted up against kitty litter)

I go off the jump on the far left, then I feint a little towards the kitty
litter and lift throttle in a Ruf, trying to kiss the inside curbing with the
right front tire, and just miss the sand with my back left tire, and then I Just
power through the next bit.

Drifting both of those turns is a fun challenge...but I couldn't imagine trying
to grip all the way through it.
Oh, I drove the Speedster...wonderful on N1 tires...boring on S2's.

9'00.078 on N1's.
Love the way it will keep walking the tail around under throttle after you've
started a slide.
Good car.

Someone should pick a Elise, but not the 111R or 190.
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/11/2005 7:47:04 PM |

Welcome back bruud! I was wondering what happened to you.

If you browse back a few pages, I think Amarynceus updated the WR list. There
haven't been any duds, but the gems of late have been the BR projects: beat the
M5, duplicate the rally car, the 100,000cr foot in mouth challenge, etc.

Oni, have you driven the Tommy kaira ZZ-s? It's a hip swishing little MR you
might enjoy when you get your PS2 back.

Sackedagain, you'll have to tell us about autumn in Michigan sometime- we've
already heard about Mississippi and Minnesota. That leaves Michigan and
Missouri, right? Any ringers from the show me state?

It'd be a good week for a convertible based BR, methinks.
---

From: MrPinstripes | Posted: 10/12/2005 3:33:20 AM |

Fall in lower Michigan is currently just summer with cool mornings. The leaves
haven't started to change yet, there hasn't been any frost, and I'm still
wearing short sleeves outdoors. I'm not a "fall guy", so I won't wax
philosophical about it, but once the snow hits I'll tell you all what winter is
like here (assuming we even have one- the last few years have been less than
wintery).

Sacked- Nice to see you again. Where to look as you drive is an important skill,
and one I have difficulty doing right in GT games. In rally games I tend to look
ahead at the road more, but in circuit racing games I'm inclined to "tunnel
vision" it and let my track knowledge guide my lines. It's a really hard habit
to break.

Bruudlinho- Welcome back. I was wondering where you'd wandered off to. Muse has
the highlights of the recent past pretty much down.

Work beckons. Later.
---

From: wanderingmuse22 | Posted: 10/12/2005 4:46:04 AM |

Correction- Amarynceus updated the WR post on page 19 of this thread, if anyone
wants to get "caught up". I think we've only had the Opel Speedster Turbo since
then.

How does one catalog BR's? All of them are worth looking up, if you missed them.

beat the M5
duplicate the rally car
filling the stable
volkswagen AG challenge
foot in mouth challenge

The titles are clues to the BR's themselves, but lose the specifics. Is that
enough?

Many BR's in previous threads were generic challenges of cost and geography.
These recent ones are not only creative, they're educational.

The rally and foot in mouth challenges taught (and or reminded) me a lot about
race car building, as well as raised my own expectations for myself.

The Volkswagen Challenge introduced me to the Audi S4, which is now one of my
new favorite cars. I wasn't the only one to find an Audi that handled too well
to tune.

I'd done too much driving at the time of the stable challenge to finish it, but
by design it required imagination, and ultimately the use of cars not normally
chosen.

Maybe we could make a mirror or ghost thread at gtplanet.net so that some of
this stuff can stick around a while. I'm not saying we should move the thread
there, but if we duplicated the data there (BR's, etc), we'd have a more lasting
point of reference.

---
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will
be the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:27


From: Flibutz | Posted: 10/12/2005 4:52:20 AM |

WR:
I'm not going to give any definitive hints just yet - it's only wednesday - but
prepare for a fast ride and a decent amount of american horsies.

Thanks for the baton, viperinthegrass.

BR & RR:
Ideas, anyone?
---

From: viperx2002 | Posted: 10/12/2005 6:32:50 AM |

I have an idea for the RR...
---
From: Von | Posted: 10/12/2005 6:37:01 AM |

Yeah, fall in lower michigan right now is just a cool summer. Cold some days,
but no frost yet. One tree in my neighboorhood had changed, but its the
one-eyed-left-handed-red-headed-bastard-stepchild of trees, and always does
things wrong.

When I get some time, I have to get back into this. I’m itching for a suicide
Sauber run, followed by a few days of cruisin in my favorite cars. Im not
entirely out of tune, when I took out the Ford GT with a friend a couple days
ago, I managed to keep it on the pavement through all of my spins, even the
gnarly 1080 between the Karussels (?The 2 turns with concrete strips in them) I
definetly need to learn the names of these things again. Only one I remember for
sure is Adenauer Forst, because when I first started Ringing UI always screwed
it there.
Tiny subaru versus gigantic german deathring!-Amarynceus

From: Soulidarity | Posted: 10/12/2005 9:43:59 AM |

I say fire away viper
Insert clever quip here


From: viperx2002 | Posted: 10/12/2005 9:53:32 AM |

Alrighty: The Jaguar XJR 1

This car is amazingly tame, but don't let it fool you. I ran a flat 6:00 my
first lap around. Even on the ring I had a very difficult time trying to make it
spin out. The requirement for it is 50% completion though...